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Mobile charging for Australia

MangroveMike

Member
Apr 22, 2014
353
36
Newcastle, Australia
Mangrove, I have had three phase 32A just installed for about $6000 because I needed it under regulations for a NSW solar array more than 5kW, but if it were just the car alone, I would have saved my money and stuck with the single phase dip switched back to 32A. It's best to charge between 20% and 80% most of the time for battery lifetime, but in practice, for 15000 km annually you need on average just 41 km a day. If careful drivers are getting say 410km a full charge, you are talking roughly 10% of a full charge a day, maybe 8.5 kWh. That should take maybe 70 minutes at 32A (7.4 - 7.7 kW), more if you like to smoke (zap?) the ICEs every day. I imagine I will charge once every 3-4 days to minimise plugging in.
Thanks David, very helpful.
I have a 3kW solar that I was think of adding to in the next couple of years - I wasn't aware of the 3 phase requirement. In the short term though the 32A may be the easiest way to go. Thanks.
 

DavidRM

Member
Dec 28, 2012
104
44
Sydney
So, I ordered and received a J1772 adapter from China and had it electrically tested by, um, I apologise for this, people who should know. The words were "T[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]he aftermarket cable you provided appears to have correct continuity and polarity for the purpose it was intended. This is in no way an endorsement of the adapter cable and I encourage you to always use compliant equipment when energising your EV."[/FONT]

So it will work but I don't - yet - have a car to test it on. If there is anyone that wants to order one, I can supply details. But probably I will have to risk my own car first. I have a Sig on order, a rather expensive wager.
[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]
Tesla have successfully tested a prototype UMC at my house (and others) using a 10A plug. The car was active throughout the day before. It finished charging by by 3.30 AM.

It would be great to have both of these as OEM options to deal with the poor
[/FONT]Australian [FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]EV charging situation. We are told early next year for the UMC, but, c'mon guys, it's really not that hard. [/FONT][FONT=Calibri, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]There can be no greater fan of Tesla than myself but you need focus on this issue. These options are also needed in Europe, New Zealand and Hong Kong.



[/FONT]
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,102
5,698
Los Altos, CA
​So, I ordered and received a J1772 adapter from China and had it electrically tested by, um, I apologise for this, people who should know. The words were "The aftermarket cable you provided appears to have correct continuity and polarity for the purpose it was intended. This is in no way an endorsement of the adapter cable and I encourage you to always use compliant equipment when energising your EV."

So it will work but I don't - yet - have a car to test it on. If there is anyone that wants to order one, I can supply details. But probably I will have to risk my own car first. I have a Sig on order, a rather expensive wager.

Tesla have successfully tested a prototype UMC at my house (and others) using a 10A plug. The car was active throughout the day before. It finished charging by by 3.30 AM.

It would be great to have both of these as OEM options to deal with the poor Australian EV charging situation. We are told early next year for the UMC, but, c'mon guys, it's really not that hard. There can be no greater fan of Tesla than myself but you need focus on this issue. These options are also needed in Europe, New Zealand and Hong Kong.
The most important thing to test with this kind of adapter is heating under load. Insufficient current carrying ability would be the most likely deficiency. I would imagine that you would not encounter a J1772 station in Australia that is over 32A. So, a good test would be to pass 40A through the adapter for 2 hours and measure the temperature rise. Is there a spec for the rated current of the adapter as a whole or the constituent parts?
 

DavidRM

Member
Dec 28, 2012
104
44
Sydney
Hi Steve

The cost was USD228 including shipping to Australia so the NZ dollar price will be substantially more than that. This was a one-off price so they may charge less for some quantity. It is supposedly rated for 32A but I will have to check that with local licensed electricians or do a test as Miimura suggests. The contact is "Victoria" at

王发清 <[email protected]>

and the company is

Zhangjiagang Uchen Technical & Engine Co.,Ltd.
Suzhou Industrial Park Dostar technology Co., Ltd.
Tel: +86-512-62953825
Fax: +86-512-62531887
Email: [email protected]
SKYpe:kathereverbright
Website: http://uchen.en.alibaba.com

Victoria will remember me (David Mills) and the company made up a drawing of the part which they can send you, or I can send if you contact me privately. I don't know how to do that on TMC or whether I am allowed to publish it.

Non OEM adapters are frowned upon by the automobile and charger companies but there aren't any of these for sale to my knowledge. It should be possible for the company to get it at least approved as functional - they supply most other EV connector types.

They describe it as

"assembly drawing of adapter with a MALE 62196-2 plug on one end (Vehicle side) and on the other end a FEMALE J1772 socket(Vehicle side). "

Hope that helps.


How much, bro?
 

danielp

Member
Jul 4, 2014
307
1
Sydney, Australia
So, I ordered and received a J1772 adapter from China ...[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif] [/FONT]

My only small frustration is that it doesn't look like there will be any mobile charging options at all when the cars arrives. I really don't understand why there are concerns about a 10A UMC and suspect the truth is elsewhere (i.e., they just haven't produced them). I'm keen to have a solution to be able to drive between Sydney/Canberra return as soon as the car arrives...

Is this all we'd need to charge at ChargePoint, etc? Is that your intended use? Have you been able to test it>

Thanks
 

DavidRM

Member
Dec 28, 2012
104
44
Sydney
My intended use is at charge point but
My only small frustration is that it doesn't look like there will be any mobile charging options at all when the cars arrives. I really don't understand why there are concerns about a 10A UMC and suspect the truth is elsewhere (i.e., they just haven't produced them). I'm keen to have a solution to be able to drive between Sydney/Canberra return as soon as the car arrives...

Is this all we'd need to charge at ChargePoint, etc? Is that your intended use? Have you been able to test it>

Thanks

Some of us made the point to Tesla about a UMC for Australia quite strongly months ago. It seems they are planning the UMC seriously for next year. A prototype 10A UMC has been tested at my home and worked fine overnight on a Tesla S. This would be much more useful as an intercity overnight charge backup, but it is not expected until early 2015. It's a small market I suppose.

My intended use for the J1772 adapter is for Chargepoint when I will be temporarily unable to perform home charging due to landscaping, but so far in Sydney and Canberra there are only a few active Chargepoint locations. Such a J1772 adapter will be much more useful in Victoria where there are many active J1772 chargers. It is my understanding that the Mitsubishi Outlander, Leaf, and Australian BMW i3 will all be designed for the J1772 so this would suggest that the J1772 network will expand in parallel with Tesla's SC network. Unfortunately I can't test my current adapter until my car arrives, whenever that is.
 

lonewolf313

Member
Jun 18, 2014
240
79
Sydney Australia
Interesting question, disregarding the slight inconvenience of having to plug and unplug when parking at home, I wonder what's better for the battery life? More frequent charges over a smaller change in charge level, or less frequent, bigger top-ups?

I have been following a series of Youtube videos (over 130 in fact) from a Tesla 60 owner (KmanAuto) in the US who has driven 20,000 miles (approx 35,000km) in just over 7 months. See youtube link here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0NQpqjEJRw and hear what he has to say regarding Tesla batteries. (Currently after just over a years ownership has clocked up over 30,000 miles).

It appears he does full battery charges a couple of times a week since new with mostly no degredation of battery life. Simply amazing
 

bollar

Disgruntled Member
May 1, 2013
2,667
878
Southlake, TX
It appears he does full battery charges a couple of times a week since new with mostly no degredation of battery life. Simply amazing
Yes. I would summarize the current thinking as keep the car plugged in when not in use and select anywhere in the standard (daily) charging bar that works for your needs. Also, feel free to range (trip) charge when you need it, but the caveat there is that many of us believe that you should begin to drive the car soon after you have charged the battery to a range charge state.

The manual warns about low charge states and fully discharging the battery.

In any event, I'm looking forward to seeing some charging options on the Sunshine Coast.
 

SteveWest

2012 Roadster 2.5, 2014 P85+, 2015 P85D
Jul 15, 2012
175
5
New Zealand
They describe it as

"assembly drawing of adapter with a MALE 62196-2 plug on one end (Vehicle side) and on the other end a FEMALE J1772 socket(Vehicle side). "
Thanks David, that's great.

My understanding is that the three phase charger is actually three separate chargers, one on each phase. So a "10kW" charger will only draw 3.3kW from each phase (derated to 3kW in the current firmware). If you want to fully utilise the on board chargers the L input needs to be connected to L1, L2, and L3 on the Type 2 end. Is your cable wired that way?

Steve
 

Dborn

Confirmed
Aug 26, 2011
2,715
357
Sydney, Australia
Steve,
i don't know about Davids cable, but i do know the 3 phase wall connector is a new unit, and that our existing connector, currently installed in my garage will need to be swapped when it becomes available. There will be a choice at that time of 3 phase 32 amp or single phase 80 amp. The net result is full utilisation of the double chargers- 20 odd Kwh.
Technically you cannot join the 3 phases together to make a single phase. The phases are out of synch with each other. That is universal, voltage independent. Also, the 3 phase system is not arithmetic - it is algebraic, so the standard basic formulas relating to single phase do not apply. My maths is hopeless, so i cannot enlighten you further in that regard.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,102
5,698
Los Altos, CA
Thanks David, that's great.

My understanding is that the three phase charger is actually three separate chargers, one on each phase. So a "10kW" charger will only draw 3.3kW from each phase (derated to 3kW in the current firmware). If you want to fully utilise the on board chargers the L input needs to be connected to L1, L2, and L3 on the Type 2 end. Is your cable wired that way?

Steve
My understanding is that there was a hardware change made before the RHD Model S production started. This hardware change was in the Junction Box between the charge port and the AC chargers under the rear passenger seat. This allows the car to take single phase power from the vehicle inlet and distribute it to all three charger phases. As you pointed out by referencing the other thread, the UMC single phase adapters already connect L1 supply to all three charger phases on the vehicle inlet. The problem was with public stations which only present single phase power on the L1 pin on the vehicle inlet, leading to ridiculously slow charging. This is no longer a problem with new cars, but it seems Tesla is slow to provide parts and retrofit all the EU cars that sill have the original limitation.

I believe a straight through adapter from a Type 1 station with a captive cable to a Type 2 vehicle inlet as proposed will work as expected on your car being delivered through Tilburg and the upcoming Australian deliveries.

This thread discusses the issue, but I will admit, now that I've reread it, that it is much clearer on the 13/16A issue that was fixed in firmware than it is on the hardware change.

Now that I think about it, you guys in Australia can check the Wall Connectors already installed and see if there is any continuity between the L1 vehicle connector cable termination inside the Tesla box and the L2 and L3 pins on the handle. If the Wall Connector charged the demo car at more than 16A with only the L1 pin on the vehicle inlet, then that's conclusively different than the original EU cars.
 
Last edited:

DavidRM

Member
Dec 28, 2012
104
44
Sydney
Thanks David, that's great.

My understanding is that the three phase charger is actually three separate chargers, one on each phase. So a "10kW" charger will only draw 3.3kW from each phase (derated to 3kW in the current firmware). If you want to fully utilise the on board chargers the L input needs to be connected to L1, L2, and L3 on the Type 2 end. Is your cable wired that way?


Steve

Steve, the cable I have is only single phase. I requested a 32A cable when it was made. I think of it as a get out of jail thing, it doesn't have to do three phase. The Chargepoint J1772 chargers here are often 32A single phase, about the same as the present temporary Tesla ESVE unless I am mistaken. My impression has been that the present home ESVE we have gives 7 kW and the future three phase up to 22 kW. My house monitoring system was down when the Tesla charged here but maybe Dborn knows what the peak draw was when he hosted the Tesla.

David
 

Gabz

Member
Jul 28, 2014
232
3
Newcastle NSW
if your after a type i 10amp single phase to J1772 type one the cheapest one in Australia is the Holden volt at $450-$500 depending on if the spares guy at Holden thinks he can rip you off or not. you could then do your plug conversion of type 2 to (type 1 inlet)
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,102
5,698
Los Altos, CA
It seems the 32A J1772 to Type 2 cable I had made up in China as in previous posts has become a product at Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum.

I don't know the price, but if anybody wants to use it for Chargepoint stations, you should take the 32A option. Probably of greatest use in country Victoria and longer trips that go through Canberra.
The page you linked has several products, none of which appear to be exactly what you discussed previously. The top picture is definitely not right because it has a J1772 handle that fits into a J1772 vehicle inlet. Near the bottom of the page they do show the J1772 inlet with a cable strain relief on the back that could be used to make the required cable. Can you post a picture of the cable you had made up?
 

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