Vendor Model 3 Öhlins DFV Coilovers - Engineered by Redwood Motorsports ™

[icetoev]

Interested in how these compare to MPP....

 

[RedwoodMotors]

@RedwoodMotors, the photos of stock and your product made me wonder - are the lower spring perches the same size? Looking for SCCA street compliant dampers.

They're similar... PM or email us ([email protected]) for more info... it can be done

So....I’m confused. What would you equate the ride of each of these systems too? What would be, say, E46 M3? The sport ones with the settings dialed back? What would the Grand Touring be? A Lexus GS 350?

will not be tracking. Drive consists of mainly concrete highways. But I don’t want a cushy ride. FWIW, I owned a GS350 FSport and thought it was too soft, even with the shocks on stiff. I also had an F10 535 with dynamic handling and that was too soft also. I think the F10 M5 and F80 M3 are too harsh. Too stiff without enough performance benefit, IMO. E92 M3 was also good. 991.2 Carrera without Sport PASM is perfect.

That's honestly a good analogy between the BMW M suspension and more luxury-oriented cars. I've personally been testing the beta performance shock set (what we're now calling "Performance Sport") and I think it's great for a daily. I'm 38, typically am in a sports car if not in the Model 3, and to me the performance setup is completely non-offensive for commuting, picking up family, etc. Yes, it's on the performance end of the spectrum but holy **** does it grip, transitions are sharp and quick but poised, and launches are fantastic. Globally... with the Performance Sport Ohlins, you definitely feel connected with the car. Zero vagueness, zero complaints... truly feels like a sports car, and you forget you're driving a 4000lb sedan.

However, if your goal is to drive to work and back and are disappointed with the comfort level of the *stock* suspension, the Grand Touring kit would be more up your alley.

Performance Sport: Phenomenal handling - Good ride quality (I would personally rate it as better than stock)
Grand Touring: Good handling characteristics (again better than stock) - but focus on improved ride quality and comfort

This sounds like a great option. Redwood, can you maybe clarify a little more?

Asked a different way: given a driver who only goes to HPDE/auto-x a couple times a year at most on street legal tires (dedicated set), but commutes a ton and enjoys spirited back road driving, would the Performance Sport or the Grand Touring be a better match for them? Or could either set be adjusted to be acceptable for that kind of driver, generally speaking?

They're adjustable, so to some extent they both have some capacity to overlap with each other - but, the fact that you track your car probably puts you into the Performance camp. We really only started the GT project after getting questions from potential customers saying essentially... "I don't really care about handling, I just want this thing to be more plush/comfortable, and I'm coming from a [insert luxury sedan brand here]". There is some overlap, but the fact that you track your car at all most likely puts you into the, go fast, optimal handling camp.

Surprised that the sport and touring versions would have the exact same springs.

They're different... the rest of the hardware is the same, but the springs and valving are different for the GT kit. We are running softer springs (also being made by Swift). The new valving curves are currently in development / testing

My question is if GT is using same digressive valving how it would smooth out the ride at low speeds? Do you still feel the bumps and potholes like stock? What about high speed freeway cracks and lines? With stock going over each of these lines gives me a headache. I’m reading we need linear valving and progressive springs for smoother ride but you pay the performance penalty. How is ohlins dampener different from KWs?

The GT valving curve that we are working on is completely different in design than the Performance curve. Both are digressive yes... and should be. Digressive just means that there is a knee point on the damping force curve... a point where the damping forces become attenuated past a certain linear velocity. So for high speed bumps like you're describing you have reduced gain for damping. Now remember the patented Dual Flow Valve also has a quasi *regressive* function as well, where past a certain linear velocity threshold damping force actually reverses (the high speed blow off function) to help absorb *big* bumps like potholes (or curbing on track).

Where did you read you need linear valving and progressive springs? That ramping up of spring force under compression creates large losses performance department, and predictability of the car during cornering, with spring rate wandering all over the place independently on all 4 wheels depending on the amount of compression at each shock/spring. If you want a Cadillac-like ride, you can throw soft progressive springs at it and reduced damping force... but what you end up with is a sloppy boat.

To answer how they're different than KW's... in short, low hysteresis and a lot of patented internal damper technology. There's a ton to unpack there, but if you research and compare them you'll find they're better in every measurable way.

That was the same thing I thought at first but after reading through it again, I realized that it says same springs but "reduced spring rate". Presumably meaning that they are the same Swift springs with the same type of steel, just a different rate.

You're correct, same Swift brand custom springs but lower rates for the GT setup.

@RedwoodMotors any more info or feedback?

Also, can you tell us where you stand with regard to # of sets ordered in the initial run for both sets, and when you might be shipping?

Thank you.

Absolutely, and thank you to everyone who has pre-ordered. We are at 16 sets pre-sold for the original (Performance Sport) kits. We were at 19 but three people switched over to the Grand Touring kits (so 4 spots left). There are 6 of the Grand Touring kits pre-ordered as well. We are hoping to ship initial batches of the Performance Sport kits towards the end of this month (pending arrival date of the springs from Japan, and a few ancillary components). Our lower forks and adjuster mounts are finished and in plating / anodizing currently as well as many of the other finished components. We will have to wait for the sea freight shipment of springs from Japan, but will air mail the first handful of springs here to get at least the earliest orders out early while we wait for the sea freight shipment, so we'll be shipping these in small batches based on order date.

Any noise / nvh concerns with the spherical bushings?

Not in this particular location we've used for the spherical but big performance gains since the Ohlins DFV piston senses how much damping force to apply based on linear shaft velocity (so any rubber on the shaft mount side creates a fraction of a second delay, slowing down the response of the shocks. In the future, we may remove the spherical on the GT kits as performance is less of a priority (and removes a little additional cost) but for now it will be included across the board on all kits, as NVH is not significantly affected but the performance benefit with specifically the DFV piston is worth the additional parts cost.

 

[COplains]

@RedwoodMotors , thanks for the info. Waiting to see if SCCA does anything else stupid before prepping a car this year

 

[beastmode13]

Any photos of the system installed on the car? Both front and rear?

 

[TheD]

I apologize in advance but I have a newb to coilovers question for either @RedwoodMotors or anyone else with experience. Given that these are height adjustable, how easy is this to do at home? Would I just be able to raise the car, remove the tire and make the adjustment or is it more complicated and possibly require a trip to a shop?

I’m interested in lowering my P3D 1-1.5” and I’m reluctant to use springs after having adjustable air suspension on my previous car. I like the idea of being able to raise the rear .5” for example if I am going on a trip and know the car will be loaded with people and luggage. I’m also interested in the ride quality and it sounds like these would be really nice coilovers in that regard as well.

Thank you for any info anyone can provide.

 

[Murattukaalai]

I apologize in advance but I have a newb to coilovers question for either @RedwoodMotors or anyone else with experience. Given that these are height adjustable, how easy is this to do at home? Would I just be able to raise the car, remove the tire and make the adjustment or is it more complicated and possibly require a trip to a shop?

I’m interested in lowering my P3D 1-1.5” and I’m reluctant to use springs after having adjustable air suspension on my previous car. I like the idea of being able to raise the rear .5” for example if I am going on a trip and know the car will be loaded with people and luggage. I’m also interested in the ride quality and it sounds like these would be really nice coilovers in that regard as well.

Thank you for any info anyone can provide.

It is not that easy compared to air suspension. Remove wheels and adjust and most of the coilovers after couple of years ceases due to rust and corrosion and cannot be adjusted anymore. Also changing ride height without alignment wears out the tires faster.

 

[BayAreaCelt]

Do you guys install? Im up in Montclair, about 20 mins away from you lot.. Also, what about ride height drop, is this easy? up and down? Up for standard road duty and low for the occasional track day?

 

[Needsdecaf]

That's honestly a good analogy between the BMW M suspension and more luxury-oriented cars. I've personally been testing the beta performance shock set (what we're now calling "Performance Sport") and I think it's great for a daily. I'm 38, typically am in a sports car if not in the Model 3, and to me the performance setup is completely non-offensive for commuting, picking up family, etc. Yes, it's on the performance end of the spectrum but holy **** does it grip, transitions are sharp and quick but poised, and launches are fantastic. Globally... with the Performance Sport Ohlins, you definitely feel connected with the car. Zero vagueness, zero complaints... truly feels like a sports car, and you forget you're driving a 4000lb sedan.

However, if your goal is to drive to work and back and are disappointed with the comfort level of the *stock* suspension, the Grand Touring kit would be more up your alley.

Performance Sport: Phenomenal handling - Good ride quality (I would personally rate it as better than stock)
Grand Touring: Good handling characteristics (again better than stock) - but focus on improved ride quality and comfort

.

So, if I'm never tracking the car, have a sports car for the weekend, live in an area with not a lot of twisties and lot s of straight concrete highways plus nasty broken concrete pavement, but still want the car to have that sporty older BMW feeling like an E46 M3 or an E39 M5, sounds like the Grand Tourings with the shocks set to the stiffer range of the settings? Or better off going for the Performance Sports and dialing them all the way soft? I just DON"T want a floaty ride.

Thanks.

 

[gurtburns]

Do you have any recommended installers in the western PA area?

Also do you guys offer a discount for purchase of multiple products? (coilovers + f/r control arms)

As a side note. Nice choice on the color. I'm pretty fond of orange.

 

[C. M. Leung]

I am interested to upgrade my model 3 suspensions with aftermarket Coilover. The main shock body is made by Öhlins and Redwood has modified to fit model 3. Please advise who will own the warranty of the kit?

How often do we need to rebuild the Coilover for normal street drive use?

 

[dfwatt]

I am interested to upgrade my model 3 suspensions with aftermarket Coilover. The main shock body is made by Öhlins and Redwood has modified to fit model 3. Please advise who will own the warranty of the kit?

How often do we need to rebuild the Coilover for normal street drive use?

Rebuild? How about never. If you mean adjust the shocks that's another question.

 

[COplains]

Rebuild? How about never. If you mean adjust the shocks that's another question.

Dampers are a wear item. Rather than trashing them, the higher end ones can be rebuilt.

 

[dfwatt]

Dampers are a wear item. Rather than trashing them, the higher end ones can be rebuilt.

They only need to be rebuilt if you blow or overload valves and seals. If you're running them mostly on the street, and the shock becomes a bit softer you simply dial up the shock to a firmer setting. I've had probably 10 sets at least of adjustable shocks, and I've never had to have one of them serviced for wear ever. This despite keeping many cars many years.

 

[Murattukaalai]

Dampers are a wear item. Rather than trashing them, the higher end ones can be rebuilt.

Do you live in CO? Are you getting Ohlins?

 

[BayAreaCelt]

Do you guys install? Im up in Montclair, about 20 mins away from you lot.. Also, what about ride height drop, is this easy? up and down? Up for standard road duty and low for the occasional track day?

Bump.....

 

[COplains]

They only need to be rebuilt if you blow or overload valves and seals. If you're running them mostly on the street, and the shock becomes a bit softer you simply dial up the shock to a firmer setting. I've had probably 10 sets at least of adjustable shocks, and I've never had to have one of them serviced for wear ever. This despite keeping many cars many years.

guess you failed fluid dynamics in engineering school

Do you live in CO? Are you getting Ohlins?

not getting ohlins

 

[P3D-R]

I drove the Redwood Model 3 when they installed their first prototype with the higher spring rates in the rear and it's what sold me on purchasing my car. I was always a BMW, Alfa, Mazda kinda guy and always a skeptic of this overly simplistic "apple" like vehicle. Well, my P3D has blown my mind. I had the same visceral if not greater experience than any of my ICE cars. In fact, I got into my Giulia and it felt very foreign to me. I really gotta hand it to Tesla on what they've done with this car. They've converted me and I'll say I'm not easy to convince. I only drove the RW car around a couple blocks near their office so I can't comment on much but it was a dramatic improvement over stock. I actually didn't mind the ride quality at all with the stiffer spring rates. In fact, it makes me wonder why anyone would want softer. I've used different brand dampers on the same chassis with the same spring rates, same brand of springs, and had one setup ride far better than the other. In fact, I've had very high quality dampers running what seem to be ridiculous spring rates for the street ride better than off the shelf Taiwanese dampers with much softer rates "designed for the street". At the end of the day it all comes down to your budget constraints. You can either save up and do it right the first time or never know what you're missing out on because you live under the "bar". That was me for the longest time but now I'm at a point in my life where I would rather wait longer and just get something that is much more probable in achieving my ultimate objective whether that be street or track or both.

I can't emphasize enough how much of a difference a quality damper makes. Ohlins, Penske, JRZ, Moton, and KW to name a few. I've got buddies who are highly competitive in autox and roadracing that DD their setups with stupid spring rates and you'd never know by riding in the car. The only indicator of a track build is the ridiculous NVH you experience with all the sphericals they have.

 

[svusa]

benchmark of the luxury ride to me is Lexus. I need car to drive around town to run errands, go to work, and some long drive over the weekend. I'm not into sports racing nor care much about track performance. roads are bad enough in NE. That being said, which Coilover, spring can be considered equivalent of Lexus type softer ride!!??

Anyone?

 

[Murattukaalai]

benchmark of the luxury ride to me is Lexus. I need car to drive around town to run errands, go to work, and some long drive over the weekend. I'm not into sports racing nor care much about track performance. roads are bad enough in NE. That being said, which Coilover, spring can be considered equivalent of Lexus type softer ride!!??

Anyone?

none so far would give you Lexus ride, you can spend money on universal air suspension with accuair or airlift suspension kit. That would give you the ride you’re looking for. With coilover even with Grand touring by ohlins and MPP comfort it won’t be Lexus. It would be close to BMW 5 series stiff but comfortable ride with better handling.

 

[svusa]

friend of mine drives BMW 5, and it less harsh than Model 3. MPP price is substantially less, so anyone had 1st hand experience?