TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
Start a Discussionhttps://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/tags/

Model 3 battery pack size

Discussion in 'Model 3: Battery & Charging' started by coupedncal, Sep 8, 2017.

Tags:
  1. coupedncal

    coupedncal Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2015
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    NCal
    How does 220 miles equate to 50kWh pack size? My leaf is a 30kWh and the EPA range is 107 miles.

    107/30 = 3.56 miles/kWh

    Model 3:
    220/50 = 4.4 miles/kWh

    Considering the Model S gets close to 3.5 miles/kWh as well, how is the Model 3 so much more efficient than the Leaf? Where i am going with this is the battery pack is likely not 50kWh but it is larger than that.
     
  2. EV-lutioin

    EV-lutioin Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    1,469
    Location:
    California
    Lower drag coefficient?
     
  3. insaneoctane

    insaneoctane Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2016
    Messages:
    1,191
    Location:
    Southern California
    New design from the ground up. Leveraging what was awesome before and improving where possible. Brand new motor is the first Tesla with the new permanent magnet type. Inverter could be better. Lighter, smaller tires, it all adds up. Nonetheless, the Hyundai ioniq is even more efficient...
     
  4. coupedncal

    coupedncal Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2015
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    NCal
    Has anyone done the reverse math and tried to obtain the range from 126MPGe that was recently published for the LR model?
     
  5. tracksyde

    tracksyde Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2013
    Messages:
    253
    Location:
    So Cal
  6. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    6,423
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Battery size does not matter to me as long as the range is correct. AND it is.
     
  7. Zaphod

    Zaphod Galaxy President (former)

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,895
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Pack size is closer to 55 with 50 useable.
     
  8. Troy

    Troy Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    1,262
    Location:
    Hi, @coupedncal. Model 3 battery sizes are 55 and 80 kWh, not 50 and 75 kWh. Here is the data:

    Model 3 80
    Actual capacity: 80.5 kWh (350V*230Ah= 80,500 Wh. Source for 350V and 230 Ah, see page 3 here)
    Usable capacity: 78.27 kWh (Source: see page 6 footer here)
    Cell count: 4,416 (source)

    Model 3 55
    Actual capacity: 54.25 kWh (This is an estimate calculated from cell counts: 80,500/4416*2976= 54,250 Wh)
    Usable capacity: 52.75 kWh (This is an estimate calculated from cell counts: 78,270/4416*2976= 52,747 Wh)
    Cell count: 2,976 (source)

    Nissan Leaf 30
    Actual capacity: 29.88 kWh (360V*83Ah= 29,880 Wh. Source for 360V and 83Ah, see page 2 here)
    Usable capacity: 27.84 kWh (This is an estimate assuming charging efficiency is 87.6% like the Model 3. 31.78*0.876= 27.84)
     
    • Informative x 6
    • Helpful x 1
    • Love x 1
  9. Troy

    Troy Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    1,262
    Location:
    Yes. I have done the calculations here.
     
    • Informative x 1
  10. FreeOfPge

    FreeOfPge Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Messages:
    432
    Location:
    CA
    Thanks for the work Troy!

    Any changes to calculations or is it pretty much agreed that long-range Model 3 is an 80, short-range will be 55?
     
  11. Troy

    Troy Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    1,262
    Location:
    Hi, @FreeOfPge. I wrote the message above in Sep 2017. We don't have any new information about Model 3 battery packs except these two details:

    1. Tesla is under-reporting Model 3 battery sizes. They are officially calling it 75 kWh. You can see that on page 137 in this Model 3 owner's manual.
    2. There is another EPA document that shows the pack weight. See my message here.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  12. FreeOfPge

    FreeOfPge Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Messages:
    432
    Location:
    CA
    Perfect. Thanks for the update!
     
  13. Canuck1966

    Canuck1966 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    White Rock, B.C.
    My question is:
    With only a 25kWh difference. Why a $9000 price difference for the bigger battery. Estimates show Tesla’s per kWh price is approx $190.00.

    55 kWh x $190 = $10450
    80 kWh x $190 = $15200

    Difference of $4750 not $9000
     
    • Funny x 1
  14. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    4,466
    Location:
    Oregon
    Why would they sell things at cost? The point is to make money to fund future development.
     
    • Like x 1
  15. gaswalla

    gaswalla P4201/85/airsusp/pano/19i

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    1,666
    Location:
    San Diego
    why does apple charge hundreds of dollars for some extra memory in the iphone? same reason
     
    • Like x 1
  16. fazluke

    fazluke Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2017
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Yorba Linda, CA
    Price is based on perceived value and has nothing to do with cost.
     
    • Like x 2
  17. kbecks13

    kbecks13 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    125
    Location:
    SoCal
    Ehh i'd prefer to say price is determined by what the market will bear, and in this case it's relatively high. Cost certainly has something to do with price, otherwise you could easily go broke!
     
  18. fazluke

    fazluke Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2017
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Yorba Linda, CA
    Yes, I over simplified ...
     
  19. Canuck1966

    Canuck1966 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    White Rock, B.C.
    Not expecting at cost price but also not expecting 100% markup
     
    • Funny x 1
  20. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    2,810
    Location:
    Norcal
    There's also the value of the better battery warranty of the LR vs. the SR.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC