Model 3 battery pack size

[coupedncal]

How does 220 miles equate to 50kWh pack size? My leaf is a 30kWh and the EPA range is 107 miles.

107/30 = 3.56 miles/kWh

Model 3:
220/50 = 4.4 miles/kWh

Considering the Model S gets close to 3.5 miles/kWh as well, how is the Model 3 so much more efficient than the Leaf? Where i am going with this is the battery pack is likely not 50kWh but it is larger than that.

 

[EV-lutioin]

Lower drag coefficient?

 

[insaneoctane]

New design from the ground up. Leveraging what was awesome before and improving where possible. Brand new motor is the first Tesla with the new permanent magnet type. Inverter could be better. Lighter, smaller tires, it all adds up. Nonetheless, the Hyundai ioniq is even more efficient...

 

[coupedncal]

Has anyone done the reverse math and tried to obtain the range from 126MPGe that was recently published for the LR model?

 

[tracksyde]

Read this thread:

[Spoiler Alert + Mild Speculation] Tesla has created a monster!

 

[Garlan Garner]

Battery size does not matter to me as long as the range is correct. AND it is.

 

[Zaphod]

Pack size is closer to 55 with 50 useable.

 

[Troy]

Hi, @coupedncal. Model 3 battery sizes are 55 and 80 kWh, not 50 and 75 kWh. Here is the data:

Model 3 80
Actual capacity: 80.5 kWh (350V*230Ah= 80,500 Wh. Source for 350V and 230 Ah, see page 3 here)
Usable capacity: 78.27 kWh (Source: see page 6 footer here)
Cell count: 4,416 (source)

Model 3 55
Actual capacity: 54.25 kWh (This is an estimate calculated from cell counts: 80,500/4416*2976= 54,250 Wh)
Usable capacity: 52.75 kWh (This is an estimate calculated from cell counts: 78,270/4416*2976= 52,747 Wh)
Cell count: 2,976 (source)

Nissan Leaf 30
Actual capacity: 29.88 kWh (360V*83Ah= 29,880 Wh. Source for 360V and 83Ah, see page 2 here)
Usable capacity: 27.84 kWh (This is an estimate assuming charging efficiency is 87.6% like the Model 3. 31.78*0.876= 27.84)

 

[Troy]

Has anyone done the reverse math and tried to obtain the range from 126MPGe that was recently published for the LR model?

Yes. I have done the calculations here.

 

[FreeOfPge]

Hi, @coupedncal. Model 3 battery sizes are 55 and 80 kWh, not 50 and 75 kWh. Here is the data:

Model 3 80
Actual capacity: 80.5 kWh (350V*230Ah= 80,500 Wh. Source for 350V and 230 Ah, see page 3 here)
Usable capacity: 78.27 kWh (Source: see page 6 footer here)
Cell count: 4,416 (source)

Model 3 55
Actual capacity: 54.25 kWh (This is an estimate calculated from cell counts: 80,500/4416*2976= 54,250 Wh)
Usable capacity: 52.75 kWh (This is an estimate calculated from cell counts: 78,270/4416*2976= 52,747 Wh)
Cell count: 2,976 (source)

Nissan Leaf 30
Actual capacity: 29.88 kWh (360V*83Ah= 29,880 Wh. Source for 360V and 83Ah, see page 2 here)
Usable capacity: 27.84 kWh (This is an estimate assuming charging efficiency is 87.6% like the Model 3. 31.78*0.876= 27.84)

Thanks for the work Troy!

Any changes to calculations or is it pretty much agreed that long-range Model 3 is an 80, short-range will be 55?

 

[Troy]

Hi, @FreeOfPge. I wrote the message above in Sep 2017. We don't have any new information about Model 3 battery packs except these two details:

1. Tesla is under-reporting Model 3 battery sizes. They are officially calling it 75 kWh. You can see that on page 137 in this Model 3 owner's manual.
2. There is another EPA document that shows the pack weight. See my message here.

 

[FreeOfPge]

Perfect. Thanks for the update!

 

[Canuck1966]

Hi, @coupedncal. Model 3 battery sizes are 55 and 80 kWh, not 50 and 75 kWh. Here is the data:

Model 3 80
Actual capacity: 80.5 kWh (350V*230Ah= 80,500 Wh. Source for 350V and 230 Ah, see page 3 here)
Usable capacity: 78.27 kWh (Source: see page 6 footer here)
Cell count: 4,416 (source)

Model 3 55
Actual capacity: 54.25 kWh (This is an estimate calculated from cell counts: 80,500/4416*2976= 54,250 Wh)
Usable capacity: 52.75 kWh (This is an estimate calculated from cell counts: 78,270/4416*2976= 52,747 Wh)
Cell count: 2,976 (source)

Nissan Leaf 30
Actual capacity: 29.88 kWh (360V*83Ah= 29,880 Wh. Source for 360V and 83Ah, see page 2 here)
Usable capacity: 27.84 kWh (This is an estimate assuming charging efficiency is 87.6% like the Model 3. 31.78*0.876= 27.84)

My question is:
With only a 25kWh difference. Why a $9000 price difference for the bigger battery. Estimates show Tesla’s per kWh price is approx $190.00.

55 kWh x $190 = $10450
80 kWh x $190 = $15200

Difference of $4750 not $9000

 

[MP3Mike]

My question is:
With only a 25kWh difference. Why a $9000 price difference for the bigger battery. Estimates show Tesla’s per kWh price is approx $190.00.

55 kWh x $190 = $10450
80 kWh x $190 = $15200

Difference of $4750 not $9000

Why would they sell things at cost? The point is to make money to fund future development.

 

[gaswalla]

why does apple charge hundreds of dollars for some extra memory in the iphone? same reason

 

[fazluke]

Price is based on perceived value and has nothing to do with cost.

 

[kbecks13]

Price is based on perceived value and has nothing to do with cost.

Ehh i'd prefer to say price is determined by what the market will bear, and in this case it's relatively high. Cost certainly has something to do with price, otherwise you could easily go broke!

 

[fazluke]

Ehh i'd prefer to say price is determined by what the market will bear, and in this case it's relatively high. Cost certainly has something to do with price, otherwise you could easily go broke!

Yes, I over simplified ...

 

[Canuck1966]

Why would they sell things at cost? The point is to make money to fund future development.

Why would they sell things at cost? The point is to make money to fund future development.

Not expecting at cost price but also not expecting 100% markup

 

[BluestarE3]

There's also the value of the better battery warranty of the LR vs. the SR.