Model 3 Door Handles

[ajay]

I've lost track of the number of times the rear passenger door handle was replaced on our Model S. Three, maybe? The retracting door handles are a cool effect until one fails to properly retract...

I'm all for elegant but still mechanical levers, like the Aston Martin door handle pics Brad_NC posted or the GTR version.

 

[artsci]

Just how expensive are they? And how prone to failure are they? Practically all cars have power windows now and they don't seem particularly failure-prone. Power lift gates are getting pretty common as well. Why would door-opening motors be different than those? I don't think it's a given that a motor would be more expensive than a two-handled mechanical linkage & power locking setup when taking all variables into account. I would love to see an accounting of the true costs of each but I doubt it's possible to dig that far into the detail with any accuracy.

Just what I was thinking. And probably when power windows first came out and were more prone to failure people were arguing for windup windows. I love the extending door handles and think it's a wonderful feature. And I have had no problems with mine. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see them on more cars in the future.

 

[timk225]

Just for cost purposes alone, I don't think the Model 3 should have them. And I don't want them either. It isn't hard to make a simple, reliable, mechanical door handle that is cheap and low profile and has minimal aerodynamic loss.

 

[EcoHeliGuy]

Just for cost purposes alone, I don't think the Model 3 should have them. And I don't want them either. It isn't hard to make a simple, reliable, mechanical door handle that is cheap and low profile and has minimal aerodynamic loss.

Can't have it both ways.

Cheep,low profile and minimal aerodynamic loss rule out mechanical

 

[ModelS1079]

I have have had all my doorhandles replaced, some more than once.
And I hope the model 3 has the same handles. I love them.
Sometimes it's easier being an idiot like me.

 

[sports4eva115]

Please please please PLEASE have the retractable handles.... They're such a defining part of the tesla car image. That and the huge touch screen.

 

[James Anders]

Funny that in the late 1940s and 1950s - car customizers would shave off protruding elements, like door handles and replace the handles with flush buttons (solenoids). And these pretty much worked all the time.

 

[S3XY]

I'm thinking it will not have X "handles". The X doors fully open automatically. The M3 will not have the falcon wing doors so it will need a handle you can grab and pull open the door. So I'm expecting either the MS handles or the flush manual handles pictured above.

 

[ankitmishra]

Model 3 should have the Model S door handles. The more they make them, the better they will become. In loaded version, they might add auto doors like Model X. But, any third option will only cause fragmentation. I also hope Model 3 is built out of aluminum for the same reason.

 

[EcoHeliGuy]

I'm thinking it will not have X "handles". The X doors fully open automatically. The M3 will not have the falcon wing doors so it will need a handle you can grab and pull open the door. So I'm expecting either the MS handles or the flush manual handles pictured above.

The front doors on the Model X also have no handles and the doors pop open. Automatic closing could be a premium package on the Model 3, but popping open doesn't take much and is cheep in parts

 

[Red Sage]

Nice vision that doesn't play well in the real world. My first thought is of my 6 year old trying to get his dog out of the car. My second is of other people helping the occupants out after an accident - I'm sure there are lots of safety regulations about this too.

My experience is that Children are a lot smarter than most adults give them credit for... That's why a 2-year-old can use an iPad better than their Grandparents these days. I'd rather Tesla Motors continue to design for 'The FUTURE'... Rather than creating something that is 'simple' for someone who is buying their 12th car, their interests would be better served by fulfilling the needs of those who won't buy their first car until 2029 or 2030, today.

Even if power handles or doors are affordable at the $35k price point, Tesla may choose not to include them to help differentiate the M3 from its high margin big brothers that I'm sure they want (if not need) to keep selling.

All that is necessary is that they differentiate Model ☰ from its contemporaries: Acura TLX, AUDI A4, BMW 3-Series, Cadillac ATS, Infiniti Q50, Jaguar XE, Lexus IS, Mercedes-Benz C-Class. Trust that if demand for Model ☰ is so high that Fremont cannot manage to build any of the Model S or Model X from October 1, 2017 forward, and find they must build a new facility instead, no one at Tesla Motors will be crying in their champagne. Please note that Generation III vehicles are the GOAL for the company, not some afterthought.

Funny that in the late 1940s and 1950s - car customizers would shave off protruding elements, like door handles and replace the handles with flush buttons (solenoids). And these pretty much worked all the time.

Exactly. Throughout the Southern California low-rider customized car scene, shaved door handles and locks for door panels and trunk are pretty much standard design features, along with slimmed down or absent exterior mirrors, adjustable suspension height, chopped roofs, etc. I've seen these types of features celebrated at car shows and in magazines going back decades to when I was a teenager. The closest that traditional automobile manufacturers have come to such innovations is body colored door handles, or handles that were all black and molded into the all black mullions at the framed windows.

The front doors on the Model X also have no handles and the doors pop open. Automatic closing could be a premium package on the Model 3, but popping open doesn't take much and is cheep in parts

Another very well made point that is often overlooked. Thank you.

 

[eloder]

Nice vision that doesn't play well in the real world. My first thought is of my 6 year old trying to get his dog out of the car. My second is of other people helping the occupants out after an accident - I'm sure there are lots of safety regulations about this too.

This is a potential issue in every modern car.

Child safety locks = trapped kid in the backseat in an accident.

Mechanical doors also do not magically unlock in the event of an accident for most cars, to be opened from the outside. Some cars have this--assuming the system works. Most do not.

All non-mechanical doors do have a mechanical override from the inside.

You're much better off getting a car with the lowest chance of injury in the first place (Tesla) then getting a car that has "more ways" to get out after an accident.

I'm thinking it will not have X "handles". The X doors fully open automatically. The M3 will not have the falcon wing doors so it will need a handle you can grab and pull open the door. So I'm expecting either the MS handles or the flush manual handles pictured above.

Only if you purchase the package.

Not all Model X doors automatically open and close with a push of the button.

 

[roblab]

Just for cost purposes alone, I don't think the Model 3 should have them. And I don't want them either. It isn't hard to make a simple, reliable, mechanical door handle that is cheap and low profile and has minimal aerodynamic loss.

So does this mean you want wind up windows as well? Cheap is the word. My Tesla door handles are reliable and simple. Our old Model S had all the door handles replaced, and then no problems. As was noted earlier, there were a lot of things that had problems originally.

If they put them on the Model 3, cool. "Well, duh, it's a Tesla!" There are lots of places to save money on a car. One might be leaving out the engine! Good plan!

 

[Fiver]

It's probably whatever will cost Tesla the least to service. Tesla will be the only people servicing these cars initially. They don't want to spend a fortune replacing door handles. I mean a few thousands of the S handles have been replaced, all on Tesla's dime. Scale that up to model 3 numbers, and you get a service nightmare. They will build a car that requires as little service from them as possible, and that means plain normal door handles probably.

 

[EcoHeliGuy]

You're much better off getting a car with the lowest chance of injury in the first place (Tesla) then getting a car that has "more ways" to get out after an accident.

Auto and aerospace manufacturers should just get ride of the doors, they are in the way after an accident.

It's probably whatever will cost Tesla the least to service. Tesla will be the only people servicing these cars initially. They don't want to spend a fortune replacing door handles. I mean a few thousands of the S handles have been replaced, all on Tesla's dime. Scale that up to model 3 numbers, and you get a service nightmare. They will build a car that requires as little service from them as possible, and that means plain normal door handles probably.

I'll explain auto manufacturing 101.

Cost of a door handle:

Bill of sale - Tesla profit - Tesla cost - Tesla R&D - parts manufacturer profit - parts manufacturer cost - parts manufacturer R&D = mass production part cost.


Cost of warranty replacement part:

Tesla shop and labor cost + mass production cost - manufacturer R&D - parts manufacturer cost = Tesla is out replacement costs and the manufacture covers parts cost due to premeture failure. Manufacturer needs to maintain quaility parts to insure profit. Tesla needs to maintain quality parts suppliers to maintain profit.

The door handles cost dollars.

 

[timk225]

So does this mean you want wind up windows as well? Cheap is the word. My Tesla door handles are reliable and simple. Our old Model S had all the door handles replaced, and then no problems. As was noted earlier, there were a lot of things that had problems originally.

If they put them on the Model 3, cool. "Well, duh, it's a Tesla!" There are lots of places to save money on a car. One might be leaving out the engine! Good plan!

Why not give it hand crank windows? Save weight, use less parts, and save me some money. If I could get my Model 3 for $500-$800 cheaper by having hand cranked windows instead of power windows, I'd do it. I know it wouldn't look good in such a high tech car, but if it is available as a cost reducing option, I'd get them.

 

[EcoHeliGuy]

Why not give it hand crank windows? Save weight, use less parts, and save me some money. If I could get my Model 3 for $500-$800 cheaper by having hand cranked windows instead of power windows, I'd do it. I know it wouldn't look good in such a high tech car, but if it is available as a cost reducing option, I'd get them.

Because it's actually more parts, costs more, effects crumple zones and safety structure design, effects door storage, effects window size and shape, and would turn away almost every potential customer. It's not cost saving to offer both options, have both completely different door designs, internal parts, factory tooling, different interior door panels. And your never going to save $500-$800, the electric setup would only cost 20-40 per door. Your retail price suggestions aren't the same as actual manufacturing costs.


They don't sell rotory phones anymore either.

 

[EcoHeliGuy]

Why not give it hand crank windows? Save weight, use less parts, and save me some money. If I could get my Model 3 for $500-$800 cheaper by having hand cranked windows instead of power windows, I'd do it. I know it wouldn't look good in such a high tech car, but if it is available as a cost reducing option, I'd get them.

$35000 retail price- 25% profit margin = $26250 - cost to manufactur (labor, energy, infastructure) - development (R&D of current model, future models, and options) - support (service centers, labor, superchargers) - corporate (Tesla motors) - parts and materials.

$800/$35000= 2%

So the difference in the small actual cost of components between hand crank Windows and electric Window equals 2% of the final retail price? Huh?

 

[CuriousG]

Everyone wants the retractable handle until their car is out of warranty and find out they have to fork out around $1k for each handle.

 

[diamond.g]

Everyone wants the retractable handle until their car is out of warranty and find out they have to fork out around $1k for each handle.

Yeah Kessy is pretty cheap in comparison. ~300USD a handle. The Kessy module is ~800USD though. Not sure if it is 1 module per car or 1 per door. My VCDS log isn't clear on that.