Model 3 entry via ... keycard & app. No fob.

[voip-ninja]

WHat? I'm not saying anything about the car acting as a WIFI spot. That has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying.

I will not say that the NFC was for cost cutting or not. That's pure speculation.

You insisted the app could only be used to control the car when you are in cell range, I'm pointing out that with wifi in the vehicle it's possible the phone could connect to that hotspot and operate the car if there is no cellular service.

Obviously the Bluetooth capabilities such as unlocking and starting the car would not depend on a network connection at all.

 

[Alketi]

I said this before but it apparently got lost in all the talk about GSM sim cards.

The Model 3 Tesla phone App will use Bluetooth LE (low energy) to unlock the car. This is not the same as regular Bluetooth that you pair with your car stereo nor should it require an Internet connection.

So, yes, the phone App will need an Internet connection to access various car features remotely, but the same phone app will also be needed to unlock the car via a direct Bluetooth LE link as you approach.

 

[gregincal]

TL;DR version: For safety and peace of mind, use the key card as the primary key, with the smart phone as a normally-disabled backup.

Ok, so replying to no one post in particular, I come to the following conclusion. Thanks for this interesting and informative discussion.

I would use the key card as my primary key, and the phone as secondary / backup. I don't like the idea of the car automatically unlocking with my any farther away than about 5- 10 feet, because it leads to all sorts of security problems. Besides the issue I noted earlier about sketchy parking lot situations, I can imagine the car unlocking (and cheerfully lighting up when it does so) when walking around the house at night. Think bedroom adjacent to carport. If the car is accessible to the night-time "public", that could be bad. I'm also one to always lock and test that the doors are actually locked, before I walk away, so I wouldn't trust an auto-lock feature. If the range is long enough, and since by definition my back is turned to the car, it would be extremely easy for someone to slip into the car as I leave, either to await my return, or to remove whatever happens to be in the car without my permission. Again, this is only a significant risk if the range is more than about 5-10 feet, but the consensus seems to be that it will be.

If you want to unlock all doors, by the way, we should be able to either tap twice or tap-and-hold the key card on the B-pillar, just like I do with my other cars. That is how other cars solve the parking lot unlock problem on an entry-by-entry basis (vs being pre-programmed one way or the other).

(BTW, our Honda CRV has an auto-lock feature that presumes a certain use pattern of unlocks and door openings, which tends to leave the car locked within our closed garage when it has no business to. That forces me to utter something ungentlemanly, before having to go back into the house for my keys. It's very annoying, and I can see this system behaving similarly.)

The issue of forgetting your phone in the car is a real one, since by doing so the car would a) remain unlocked, and b) provide a juicy target for a thief, both the phone itself, and the whole rest of the car while they're at it. If I use the key card to lock the car, while the enabled phone is in the car (say, in my wife's purse), the car will re-unlock itself without my knowledge. Tesla could presumably program the car to beep at me under these circumstances, but I don't believe they do this with the MS/X fob today.

Remote enabling of COP, cabin pre-heat, etc. via the App presumably doesn't require or trigger the phone-as-key to be enabled. If so, I would object strongly. These need to be kept independent.

So, keep the keycard on your keyring (it's just a very flat key fob, after all), tap to enter the car and start it. Tap again to lock on your way out. Safe, secure, and still high on the convenience scale as "keyless" systems go.

One last point, or rather, question... I am assuming in all this that the key card does not automatically enable Valet mode by its use, right?

Why do you assume the car would unlock with you further than 5-10 feet away?

 

[gregincal]

What?

GSM / Cellular / Texting / Internet are all the same thing. I don't know what you are saying.

Take your SIM card out of your phone and the only thing you can do is connect to WIFI to do anything.

an app and its communication functions are indeed allowed via GSM. There is nothing else necessary.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Take your sim out of your phone, and you should still be able to control your car if you are connected via wifi, that's what he's saying. In fact, I control my car all the time from my iPad, which doesn't support GSM at all. GSM has nothing to do with the Tesla app, just an internet connection by any means.

 

[insaneoctane]

I'm open to this being a good/great solution, I just don't know enough yet. I'm concerned and excited about this. I'm concerned about some habits I currently fall victim to....I've been known to leave my phone in it's mount, lock my car, and run into a store/ bathroom for a quick stop. Can't do that. I'm concerned the range control won't be as excellent as my current Nissan fob, which knows whether the fob is IN the vehicle or OUT. Jury is out, I'm hopeful it's awesome, but cautious....

 

[gregd]

Why do you assume the car would unlock with you further than 5-10 feet away?

Several of the postings up-thread indicated that BT or even BTLE would have a significantly longer range than my 5-10 foot safety criteria. My own experience with BT in general supports this, but if there is technology in Tesla's implementation (some sort of active geofencing) that can reliably constrain the reception circle, then I'm perhaps more open to the use of the phone. Simply relying on the signal being too weak to receive is imprecise and variable enough to be a problem, because if we demand a reliable unlock from 5-10 feet, then we will still get an unreliable but possible unlock under the right conditions from considerably farther away.

NFC has a significantly short enough range that it's ok to use on this basis. Still my preference.

 

[tpatana]

I'll say it one more time.

Remove your SIM card in your phone and see what you can do with your phone.

There will be no texting / phone calls / internet ( unless you use wifi ) or data. Phone companies call that GSM.

You can call it whatever you want.

You're kinda mixing up things incorrectly.

For one, GSM basically has two pipes. One for traditional (think calls and texts), one for internet/data. The latter one you can replace if you're hooked up to wifi, so all your internet-hungry apps will still work even if you remove SIM card (also iMessages use data-pipe instead of the call-pipe, so you can text iMessages even without cell-coverage if you have wifi available).

And if it's true when someone said that if the car goes to sleep, you need text message to wake it up. Then it needs to have actual cell coverage and not just wifi. I'm assuming the car doesn't use iMessages.

 

[Garlan Garner]

You insisted the app could only be used to control the car when you are in cell range, I'm pointing out that with wifi in the vehicle it's possible the phone could connect to that hotspot and operate the car if there is no cellular service.

Obviously the Bluetooth capabilities such as unlocking and starting the car would not depend on a network connection at all.

Where did I say that? No I didn't

I explicitly stated that GSM functions such as remote preheating of the car can be done from anywhere on the planet.
Bluetooth unlocking of the doors will have to be done in close proximity of the car.

Read my posts carefully before responding inaccurately.

 

[Garlan Garner]

You're kinda mixing up things incorrectly.

For one, GSM basically has two pipes. One for traditional (think calls and texts), one for internet/data. The latter one you can replace if you're hooked up to wifi, so all your internet-hungry apps will still work even if you remove SIM card (also iMessages use data-pipe instead of the call-pipe, so you can text iMessages even without cell-coverage if you have wifi available).

And if it's true when someone said that if the car goes to sleep, you need text message to wake it up. Then it needs to have actual cell coverage and not just wifi. I'm assuming the car doesn't use iMessages.

No I am NOT mixing things up.

I am saying one thing and one thing only. Remove your sim card from your phone and you can't place phone calls / Text / use Data / or anything unless you use WIFI. I keep saying that over and over and over. Vendors call the SIM card a GSM card.

Your internet hungry apps will ONLY work without the SIM card out if you are connected to WIFI. I keep saying that over and over. You aren't listening to what I am saying.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Take your sim out of your phone, and you should still be able to control your car if you are connected via wifi, that's what he's saying. In fact, I control my car all the time from my iPad, which doesn't support GSM at all. GSM has nothing to do with the Tesla app, just an internet connection by any means.

I'm saying the same thing. I keep saying the same thing. Why aren't you reading it correctly?

You will be able to control your car by either using your SIM card data access OR WIFI ( if you don't have data access ). I keep saying the same thing multiple ways.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Anyone understand why this is going to be a complicated thing for those who are not tech savvy? For goodness sake - look at this tech savvy thread.

 

[Garlan Garner]

@Runt8 whats the problem?

 

[Runt8]

@Runt8 whats the problem?

No problem.

 

[Stolz25]

Anyone understand why this is going to be a complicated thing for those who are not tech savvy? For goodness sake - look at this tech savvy thread.

Fair enough, but why would one assume you don't need to be tech savvy? Tesla is a tech company that sells cars.

We are still in the early adopter phase for this, which is usually populated with tech savvy people who will put up with a few bugs in order to be on the cutting edge.

I can't picture my mom being able to operate this car and there is no way on earth she'd buy it. But she's not the target audience.

 

[dsvick]

A couple of my concerns are:
Right now, when I go for a trail run I'll park my car at the trail head, tuck the key into the zipper pocket on my shorts and go. I leave my phone and wallet in the car. Having to carry my phone is a non starter with all the mud and water crossings, and carrying a key card in my back pocket seems like a good way to snap it in half if I fall.
Another concern is, if I've got a key card and paired phone and my wife does as well and we go somewhere and she leaves her purse in the trunk with her key card and phone. I wonder what the car does, does it see my phone walking away and lock the doors or does it think she's still in there and keep them unlocked?

I'm betting that a lot of the questions and concerns we have will be answered (maybe not satisfactorily, but at least answered) when we finally get the chance to see an owners manual.

 

[dgpcolorado]

It's not very convenient, but you could just turn the phone off if you want to leave it in the car.

It would be helpful if the car could warn us if a phone, or key card on the console, is left in the car. With the S I can tell whether it is locked by the door handles; that won't work with the 3.

 

[dgpcolorado]

It's not very convenient, but you could just turn the phone off if you want to leave it in the car.

It would be helpful if the car could warn us if a phone, or key card on the console, is left in the car. With the S I can tell whether it is locked by the door handles; that won't work with the 3.

 

[geometro]

Hopefully, we don't have to take our phones out to lock/unlock. That would be a step backward.

Also, I need the ability to leave a phone in the car and just take the card when I go surfing. Elon previously mentioned that you could fit a 7' surfboard in the car, so I'm hoping they contemplated this (even better if the card is waterproof!).

 

[dgpcolorado]

It's not very convenient, but you could just turn the phone off if you want to leave it in the car.

It would be helpful if the car could warn us if a phone, or key card on the console, is left in the car. With the S I can tell whether it is locked by the door handles; that won't work with the 3.

 

[Stolz25]

Another concern is, if I've got a key card and paired phone and my wife does as well and we go somewhere and she leaves her purse in the trunk with her key card and phone. I wonder what the car does, does it see my phone walking away and lock the doors or does it think she's still in there and keep them unlocked?

Sorry, I don't see how this is different from the current model S. My wife carries key fobs for both cars in her purse all the time, so if she left her purse in the car she'd be leaving a fob too. Worse case scenario you'd have to manually lock the doors when you walked off. Hardly problem for as rare as it will be.