Apple worked with a hotel chain to be able to use an Apple Watch as a key, so I don’t think there’s any technical reason it wouldn’t work (and it would be really cool!).
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voip-ninja
Give me some sugar baby
So they can't change the WiFi to act as a hot spot to allow you remote control of the car in an emergency situation? The other cars have fobs, the M3 does not, so it's still in the realm of possibility.
I would expect it would take a lot of negative early feedback for them to pursue such a change.
More interesting to me than the decision to do an NFC card is the obvious cost cutting in this and other areas compared to the MS and MX. No dash cluster, no start button, no key fob. Tesla clearly was trying to squeeze as much cost out of this car as they possibly could.
Garlan Garner
Banned
What?
GSM / Cellular / Texting / Internet are all the same thing. I don't know what you are saying.
Take your SIM card out of your phone and the only thing you can do is connect to WIFI to do anything.
an app and its communication functions are indeed allowed via GSM. There is nothing else necessary.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Garlan Garner
Banned
WHat? I'm not saying anything about the car acting as a WIFI spot. That has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying.
I will not say that the NFC was for cost cutting or not. That's pure speculation.
Garlan Garner
Banned
GSM is a type of cellular network, but is by no means the only kind. GSM is certainly not the same thing as “texting” or “internet.” When you say “The APP and its functions are driven via GSM” that implies it only works with that specific technology; not wifi, not LTE, etc.
As a long time software engineer and app developer, I would assume that the app works when both the phone and the car have an internet connection. The type of connection shouldn’t matter. When you specify a specific connection type it makes me think there’s more to the story.
As I said before, if it wasn’t for the whole issue about waking up the car using a text message (which is not delivered using a data connection) then I would assume you were just misusing the terminology and move on.
My "what difference does it make?" was in response to the assertion that the card was a "NFC card" rather than a "RFID card".
I agree that if the phone method is reliable, then the RFID is a fine back-up. My concern is that the phone won't be reliable, either because of hardware/software issues or because the user frequently lets their phone die. The difference between a phone and an FOB is that FOB batteries only die every year or so, whereas many people let their phone die very frequently.
Garlan Garner
Banned
I'll say it one more time.
Remove your SIM card in your phone and see what you can do with your phone.
There will be no texting / phone calls / internet ( unless you use wifi ) or data. Phone companies call that GSM.
You can call it whatever you want.
You can say it all you want, that doesn’t make it right. If I’m on a CDMA network then I wouldn’t even have a SIM card. GSM is type of network. It’s not synonymous with texting, or internet.
I’ve explained my concerns, but it’s obvious you don’t have the answers so I’ll just leave it alone.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Look... I understand CDMA and its limping technology. Verizon is going to be bailing CDMA in 2019 or 2020. Sprint and US Cellular won't be able to carry it on its own.... but that's another story.
For simplicity sake......I am going to remain in that you won't have any SERVICE ( texting / internet /phone calls / etc ) without your GSM sim card.
YOu keep saying that you will leave it alone, but you don't.
TL;DR version: For safety and peace of mind, use the key card as the primary key, with the smart phone as a normally-disabled backup.
Ok, so replying to no one post in particular, I come to the following conclusion. Thanks for this interesting and informative discussion.
I would use the key card as my primary key, and the phone as secondary / backup. I don't like the idea of the car automatically unlocking with my any farther away than about 5- 10 feet, because it leads to all sorts of security problems. Besides the issue I noted earlier about sketchy parking lot situations, I can imagine the car unlocking (and cheerfully lighting up when it does so) when walking around the house at night. Think bedroom adjacent to carport. If the car is accessible to the night-time "public", that could be bad. I'm also one to always lock and test that the doors are actually locked, before I walk away, so I wouldn't trust an auto-lock feature. If the range is long enough, and since by definition my back is turned to the car, it would be extremely easy for someone to slip into the car as I leave, either to await my return, or to remove whatever happens to be in the car without my permission. Again, this is only a significant risk if the range is more than about 5-10 feet, but the consensus seems to be that it will be.
If you want to unlock all doors, by the way, we should be able to either tap twice or tap-and-hold the key card on the B-pillar, just like I do with my other cars. That is how other cars solve the parking lot unlock problem on an entry-by-entry basis (vs being pre-programmed one way or the other).
(BTW, our Honda CRV has an auto-lock feature that presumes a certain use pattern of unlocks and door openings, which tends to leave the car locked within our closed garage when it has no business to. That forces me to utter something ungentlemanly, before having to go back into the house for my keys. It's very annoying, and I can see this system behaving similarly.)
The issue of forgetting your phone in the car is a real one, since by doing so the car would a) remain unlocked, and b) provide a juicy target for a thief, both the phone itself, and the whole rest of the car while they're at it. If I use the key card to lock the car, while the enabled phone is in the car (say, in my wife's purse), the car will re-unlock itself without my knowledge. Tesla could presumably program the car to beep at me under these circumstances, but I don't believe they do this with the MS/X fob today.
Remote enabling of COP, cabin pre-heat, etc. via the App presumably doesn't require or trigger the phone-as-key to be enabled. If so, I would object strongly. These need to be kept independent.
So, keep the keycard on your keyring (it's just a very flat key fob, after all), tap to enter the car and start it. Tap again to lock on your way out. Safe, secure, and still high on the convenience scale as "keyless" systems go.
One last point, or rather, question... I am assuming in all this that the key card does not automatically enable Valet mode by its use, right?
Ok, so replying to no one post in particular, I come to the following conclusion. Thanks for this interesting and informative discussion.
I would use the key card as my primary key, and the phone as secondary / backup. I don't like the idea of the car automatically unlocking with my any farther away than about 5- 10 feet, because it leads to all sorts of security problems. Besides the issue I noted earlier about sketchy parking lot situations, I can imagine the car unlocking (and cheerfully lighting up when it does so) when walking around the house at night. Think bedroom adjacent to carport. If the car is accessible to the night-time "public", that could be bad. I'm also one to always lock and test that the doors are actually locked, before I walk away, so I wouldn't trust an auto-lock feature. If the range is long enough, and since by definition my back is turned to the car, it would be extremely easy for someone to slip into the car as I leave, either to await my return, or to remove whatever happens to be in the car without my permission. Again, this is only a significant risk if the range is more than about 5-10 feet, but the consensus seems to be that it will be.
If you want to unlock all doors, by the way, we should be able to either tap twice or tap-and-hold the key card on the B-pillar, just like I do with my other cars. That is how other cars solve the parking lot unlock problem on an entry-by-entry basis (vs being pre-programmed one way or the other).
(BTW, our Honda CRV has an auto-lock feature that presumes a certain use pattern of unlocks and door openings, which tends to leave the car locked within our closed garage when it has no business to. That forces me to utter something ungentlemanly, before having to go back into the house for my keys. It's very annoying, and I can see this system behaving similarly.)
The issue of forgetting your phone in the car is a real one, since by doing so the car would a) remain unlocked, and b) provide a juicy target for a thief, both the phone itself, and the whole rest of the car while they're at it. If I use the key card to lock the car, while the enabled phone is in the car (say, in my wife's purse), the car will re-unlock itself without my knowledge. Tesla could presumably program the car to beep at me under these circumstances, but I don't believe they do this with the MS/X fob today.
Remote enabling of COP, cabin pre-heat, etc. via the App presumably doesn't require or trigger the phone-as-key to be enabled. If so, I would object strongly. These need to be kept independent.
So, keep the keycard on your keyring (it's just a very flat key fob, after all), tap to enter the car and start it. Tap again to lock on your way out. Safe, secure, and still high on the convenience scale as "keyless" systems go.
One last point, or rather, question... I am assuming in all this that the key card does not automatically enable Valet mode by its use, right?
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Then they can use the card to get in the car and plug in their phone to recharge.
At least until they change their habits.
This applies to me, by the way. I hate carrying a phone and routinely leave it to die at home
Can they do this? Absolutely. Will they find it annoying as compared with the industry-standard practice of having a fob? You bet. Should a car be designed so it forces you to change your habits regarding how you use/recharge your cell phone? Probably not. Is this a deal killer? No... But it is annoying.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
That is where we differ. I recognize that I am the minority here, so I'll just change my habit and enjoy the car.
Actually, I'm more interested in hearing whether the owner can pair the phone to the car without dealer involvement. I sure hope so.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Garlan Garner
Banned
I would think that it would absolutely ludicrous if Tesla has to be involved in pairing 500K+ phones with Model 3's
Thanks. I don't know the underlying tech here. I once had a manager write a spec that relied on the web browser launching arbitrary programs from a http-only web page and couldn't understand why that was not allowed, so how can we do that? I think I may be asking for something about as ridiculous.
