Tesla probably sells more M3Ps in 6 months than BMW sells M3 whole year, pretty good for a “dead” car imo.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Model 3 Highland Performance/Plaid Speculation [Car announced 04.23.2024]
- Thread starter Daniel L
- Start date
BMW can only dream.
BMW sold 177K M cars last year. This includes "M performance" cars- you know, the ones with appearance packages and blue, purple, and red stitching on an otherwise base car. And so, so many "M" SUV's....
Tesla sold 1.25M Model 3 and Model Y in 2022.
Which means that as long as 14% of all Model 3/Y were performance models, those cars outsold every single M and M appearance package combined in 2022, not just the M3.
The performance package costs $6000 on a car that was $55K+ before the price drops. You think you wouldn't get a take rate of 14% at that price premium? Tesla sells more than 14% FSD and that's $15,000. Around me, I'd guess at least 20% of the Teslas I see are performance models.
BMW has 42 models in the M and M performance line and can't sell as many cars as Tesla does in 2 models.
I really think people are missing the economics here of why the Highland M3P can't be that different than the base cars. Let's not forget the Model Y is actually Tesla's best seller and that car is what is going to drive the M3P performance specs.
BMW sold 177K M cars last year. This includes "M performance" cars- you know, the ones with appearance packages and blue, purple, and red stitching on an otherwise base car. And so, so many "M" SUV's....
Tesla sold 1.25M Model 3 and Model Y in 2022.
Which means that as long as 14% of all Model 3/Y were performance models, those cars outsold every single M and M appearance package combined in 2022, not just the M3.
The performance package costs $6000 on a car that was $55K+ before the price drops. You think you wouldn't get a take rate of 14% at that price premium? Tesla sells more than 14% FSD and that's $15,000. Around me, I'd guess at least 20% of the Teslas I see are performance models.
BMW has 42 models in the M and M performance line and can't sell as many cars as Tesla does in 2 models.
I really think people are missing the economics here of why the Highland M3P can't be that different than the base cars. Let's not forget the Model Y is actually Tesla's best seller and that car is what is going to drive the M3P performance specs.
Sounds to me like you’re just disappointed it’s not a very specific niche luxury performance sedan and you want them to go after that segment. It’s a fair criticism as a consumer but I agree with others that there may not be any incentive to do so since it already outsells all of those cars. Hyundai is doing something like that with the N line but Tesla seems more interested in manufacturing efficiency and sharing as many parts as possible between trims. It is what it is.
Woah quite a bit of speculation in this post. As I suspected Tesla doesn't post actual numbers so no one here knows for sure. Also not sure what the Model Y has to do with anything. The M3P might sell at its current ridiculously low price which is basically 40 percent off it's original price. I'll stand by my speculation that the take rate for the current P is probably pretty low. As far as BMW numbers, supply remains constrained so those numbers are also artificially low.
That's fine. I do want them to go after the segment and hope they do. I think your second statement is probably correct but I don't agree with the first one. It clear that Tesla isn't standing pat because they have no incentive, it's rather that they just have no interest.
Seems to me that that have no interest because they have no financial incentive, doing anything else is just bad business.
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
OK, so back on topic, Tesla released a little promo video last week and there's not much to see here other than a bad tint job, but at 1:20 Lars Moravy, VP of Tesla Vehicle Engineering, says something that sounds like they have switched from Bilstein to Koni shocks. This is interesting because Bilstein is a huge corporation which makes much of the world's shocks, while Koni is more of a small aftermarket supplier, generally only OEM'd on low-volume exotics. Perhaps Tesla has licensed the technology and will start producing shocks in-house?
Car enthusiasts have very strong preferences about shock brands and often think the difference is about "quality" or "buttery smooth oils" when in reality it's more just a matter of how well the tuning matches your car and your taste. But Koni is actually a little bit different:
Tesla's current Bilsteins use the same 3 sets of shim stacks as any other twin-tube shock. The shims function as simple spring valves which respond instantly to reduce damping as forces increase, allowing for a firm, controllable ride that instantly becomes much softer when you hit large bumps.
Koni cleverly adds a 4th valve which is slowed by a restrictive oil passage. This slow valve is normally open (soft) but prolonged motion in either direction causes it to close and revert to standard shim stack behavior. So rather than being force-dependent, it is time-dependent. This allows for the shock to be soft for a very short time when the 4th valve is open (e.g. hitting a road reflector), yet still provide firm handling when the 4th valve closes over road undulations and steering inputs, then be soft again when hitting potholes which open the shim stacks. It's not magic, but it provides some opportunity for more broadly optimized tuning.
Car enthusiasts have very strong preferences about shock brands and often think the difference is about "quality" or "buttery smooth oils" when in reality it's more just a matter of how well the tuning matches your car and your taste. But Koni is actually a little bit different:
Tesla's current Bilsteins use the same 3 sets of shim stacks as any other twin-tube shock. The shims function as simple spring valves which respond instantly to reduce damping as forces increase, allowing for a firm, controllable ride that instantly becomes much softer when you hit large bumps.
Koni cleverly adds a 4th valve which is slowed by a restrictive oil passage. This slow valve is normally open (soft) but prolonged motion in either direction causes it to close and revert to standard shim stack behavior. So rather than being force-dependent, it is time-dependent. This allows for the shock to be soft for a very short time when the 4th valve is open (e.g. hitting a road reflector), yet still provide firm handling when the 4th valve closes over road undulations and steering inputs, then be soft again when hitting potholes which open the shim stacks. It's not magic, but it provides some opportunity for more broadly optimized tuning.
MagnusMako
Member
C&D noted differences even in the 2019 vs 2018 model, although unfortunately they didn't appear to test more modern versions.
C/D TEST RESULTS
Tested: 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance Rules the Passing Lane
Dual electric motors give Tesla's quickest and most expensive sports sedan runs as hard as sports sedans such as the BMW M3.www.caranddriver.com
Zero to 60 mph: 3.5 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 8.9 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 17.1 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 3.7 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 1.4 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 2.0 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.1 sec @ 114 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 153 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 147 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.95 g
C/D TEST RESULTS
Tested: 2019 Tesla Model 3 Performance Hits 60 in 3.1 Seconds
Tesla's smallest sedan is amusing with more power and better handling.
60 mph: 3.1 sec
100 mph: 8.2 sec
1/4 mile: 11.6 sec @ 115 mph
130 mph: 16.2 sec
150 mph: 27.0 sec
Results above omit 1-ft rollout of 0.3 sec.
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 3.3 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 1.1 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 1.7 sec
Top speed (mfr's claim): 162 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 147 ft
Braking, 100–0 mph: 296 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.96 g
Sorry but these 2018 test results are not because of physical y2y differences. Not to mention, those C/D times seem slower than I would expect under ideal drag strip conditions and full SoC. I have doubts all publications at the time necessarily tested properly, and they don't even bother mentioning SoC. Then there were numerous software updates that uncorked more power. And just to add to this, my dual motor 2018 model 3 was converted into a Performance with the Ghost mod and with some meager weight reductions, I've ran 11.33 in the 1/4 mile, which is also verified on dragtimes.com. And without any weight reductions, I was regularly hitting high 11.4s low 11.5's at the track, still faster than the 2019 test results from C/D.
I had good experience with Koni yellows back in my import tuning days. Could be an interesting development. I’m very happy with my aftermarket MPP setup but it would be nice to have a decent factory suspension that didn’t mess with the warranty.
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
Actually, I've found that Koni licenses their FSD valve to Tennessee Gas and Transmission, a gas pipeline company that owns Monroe, Öhlins, and Rancho, so they basically make every shock that isn't Bilstein or KYB. And considering that we haven't seen any drone shots of Tesla's extensive new suspension proving grounds, it's probably more likely that they just switched to the Tennessee brand shocks rather than licensing Koni's technology for in-house production.
Tiger
Active Member
ODWms
Member
2 Plaids, and a Model Y, and still get change back!
GreenHokie
Member
I’m very tempted to buy the Lucid Sapphire, but my wife would probably hurt me real bad if I made that purchase!!
Although, I could say buying it would be my one & only mid-life crisis event...
Last edited:
She might make sure of that...Although, I could say buying it would be my one & only mid-life crisis event...
MagnusMako
Member
Tesla doesn't really need to twist any knife just to stroke the ego when their energy us much better focused on the long term mission of affordable mass transit EVs. Regardless, the Plaid will still outsell the Lucid tenfold. Plaid is 1/3 the price for 95% the performance. But in any case, the Roadster is coming hopefully in the next year, and will likely hold up with the likes of the Nevera for again a fraction of the cost.
Oh man, you had me convinced you were a reasonable person in the first half of your post, not gonna lie
GreenHokie
Member
Two plaid motors (both with carbon sleeved rotors) in the upcoming Performance Highland trim?! See video attached below. Still speculation of course, but man, I hope this will come true.
I realize a couple guys on this forum feel pretty strongly that Tesla has no reason to significantly improve the performance numbers of the outgoing M3P model… and hence it won’t happen. However, I happen to disagree and feel doing so would make perfect sense. We shall see!…
I realize a couple guys on this forum feel pretty strongly that Tesla has no reason to significantly improve the performance numbers of the outgoing M3P model… and hence it won’t happen. However, I happen to disagree and feel doing so would make perfect sense. We shall see!…
Tiger
Active Member
I'd love if it was faster than Plaid MX so I can cross that off my shopping list as it is so overpriced anyways
GreenHokie
Member
Me too! If Tesla does indeed use the plaid (carbon sleeved rotors) in both the front and rear motors, then I think it’s a safe bet it will capable of being as fast or faster than a MX Plaid.I'd love if it was faster than Plaid MX so I can cross that off my shopping list as it is so overpriced anyways
Just curious why you are comparing/cross-shopping a MX Plaid versus the upcoming M3P? Obviously, two completely different vehicle classes/segments. Not hatin, just curious. We all have our reasons…
