The irony of course being that the current M3P will beat a BMW M3 on a lot of tracks and other driving which is not just a straight line, and many BMW M3 configs will beat a Model 3 0-60 and for sure 0-100 MPH.
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Model 3 Highland Performance/Plaid Speculation [Car announced 04.23.2024]
- Thread starter Daniel L
- Start date
I think it depends on the track of course but having driven both and been an M5 owner in the past they aren’t comparable in how they handle. BMW knows how to tune a cars handling really well. Even if it’s slower, it’s more fun and enjoyable.
If Tesla was to try to better compete with that, the cost of the car is just going to jump up. I think there’s a place in the market for what they offer already. And I’m sure they are stealing some BMW M3 sales anyway.
Ahh, the old "but it feels better!" - yet most people are comparing lap times and 0-60 that the magazines and YouTube publish.
(I have an M3P, BMW M5, and 911 so I do know what you are talking about. But the M3P eats the lunch of the others in many cases)
I'm 100% with you BTW- The new M3P just needs to be the same car with a bit better numerical performance and it will sell great and make a lot of people happy, and it doesn't have to "beat" a BMW M3.
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Indeed. There’s a place for all those cars, doesn’t always have to be the fastest to be the most enjoyable to drive. As you say though numbers sell cars and Tesla is very good at that.
Plaid motor or motors in dual configuration to solve the tail off of performance at higher speeds.
That’s about all I’m kind of interested in them changing. I’d still like to have some of the comfort improvements the highland brought also. Maybe not to the levels of the RWD / LR but a step up from last gen M3P so they are moving the game on regardless.
Just don't be like Audi from there RS variants. Well engineered but are always slower then its peer from M and AMG.
If they built an good value DD performance car, there will always be a market for those cars. If I want a nice interior, there are other brands. Fun factor over rule nice interior if I had to pick one. But if a car is boring to drive, one can always admired the nice stitchings on the interior?
If they built an good value DD performance car, there will always be a market for those cars. If I want a nice interior, there are other brands. Fun factor over rule nice interior if I had to pick one. But if a car is boring to drive, one can always admired the nice stitchings on the interior?
I also think it’s fair to say the next m3p will NOT be an M3 competitor because Elon doesn’t really understand what a sports car is. He calls the cyberbeast better a sports car, He called the m3p better than an M3 when it came out, and his response to the Taycan turbo S was the Plaid…which is faster in a straight line…but that’s about it.
The Model S Plaid set a time of 7:25.23 on the Nurburgring in June of 2023. This beat the prior best time of a Taycan Turbo S at 7:33.35 set in April 2022. It takes good handling and brakes, as well as power, to set a good time at the Nurburgring. So, the Taycan just can't hang with the Plaid.
Also, I think it's fair to say that an M3P was better than an M3 when it came out in 2018. Since then, BMW has put a lot of engineering effort into improving the performance of the M3 so that it could beat the M3P. Obviously BMW felt threatened.
Plaid runs 7:35 on stock tires that are actually street-able. The 7:25 time came only after they put on the track package Goodyear Supercar 3R tires. These comparisons are pointless when the companies start making $20K "track packs" just so they can put on race car tires and set a quick lap.
ODWms
Member
When everyone else does the same thing when they do the time laps at the "Ring", I think it is very fair comparison.
The Taycan that set a 7:33 time was using a special Tequipment package that Porsche had specially developed for the Taycan to break the Nurburgring record that the Plaid had previously set, and it was running "R" type tires, Pirelli Pzero Corsas. So, comparably equipped, with the best available factory options for speed, the Plaid is 8 seconds faster around the Nurburgring than the Taycan. As for their tires being streetable, they are DOT approved for street usage, and can certainly be used on the street. When I lived in Southern California, I used "R" type tires on my daily driver; they were fun. Here in Colorado, they're not so practical since downpours occur more frequently.
Edit: As far as I can tell, it's not possible to buy the Tequipment performance package for the Taycan Turbo S here in the United States, unlike the Track Package for the Plaid which is readily available.
When the the Plaid first ran at the Nurburgring it was farther from stock as well, despite Elon saying "it was straight from the factory floor". They put in a racing seat, had a motorsport dashboard display, and some sort of additional switch in the console. You can learn all of this from the YouTube image of the video.
Given Elon's and thus Tesla's very loose partnership with the truth or reality when making public statements, I don't reeally trust the car was stock in other ways, and notably Tesla did not claim that faster Model S was unmodified. So forgive me a bit of doubt that you could just go buy a Model S with the Track Pack, put Tom Schwister in it, and run a 7:25 again. We all know Tesla will do very shady things to make their products look superior (Cybertruck vs 911 drag race anyone?)
Given Elon's and thus Tesla's very loose partnership with the truth or reality when making public statements, I don't reeally trust the car was stock in other ways, and notably Tesla did not claim that faster Model S was unmodified. So forgive me a bit of doubt that you could just go buy a Model S with the Track Pack, put Tom Schwister in it, and run a 7:25 again. We all know Tesla will do very shady things to make their products look superior (Cybertruck vs 911 drag race anyone?)
Well, you're just bound and determined to not believe that a Model S Plaid can outperform the Taycan Turbo S on a racetrack, aren't you?
pdx_m3s
Active Member
No, I'm just saying that one Plaid time at the 'ring in a questionably configured car and one Taycan time at the ring doesn't prove:
Cars within 2% of one another are pretty well matched, and in the real world will absolutley come down to drivers.
On the street? 99.9% of streets don't look like the Nurburgring. In fact, on most streets, the Plaid would obliterate the Taycan
Tiger
Active Member
On the street? 99.9% of streets don't look like the Nurburgring. In fact, on most streets, the Plaid would obliterate the Taycan
On that note, Plaid obliterates the Taycan also on Nurburgring
What you're saying is that the Plaid accelerates better and the Taycan handles better, so on the track, they balance out?
What % on the Nurburgring is "obliterates"? 8 seconds between the Taycan and the Plaid is the same as the Plaid to a 2012 Nissan GTR. Do we agree a decade old GTR obliterates a Plaid? What about a 2018 Camaro, on identical tires, that ran 9 seconds faster? Complete annaihilation, right? I don't even know the words we could come up with for the cars that are running 13 seconds faster!
Hyperbolic language doesn't help anyone, and I really wonder how many of you have driven on a track if you think 1.5% faster is "obliteration," particularly while bench racing two cars on different days.
And FYI, the tires used on the Plaid Track Pack are not street legal in Europe, so this was not in a sreet legal configuration, while the Taycan P Zero Corsas were.
See Tesla Model S Plaid With Track Package Go Around F1 Circuit In Video Review
Is the $20,000 optional package worth the money? This first drive review of the Tesla Model S Plaid Track Package tries to find out.
insideevs.com
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