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Model 3 Track Day: Laguna Seca
- Thread starter mattcrowley
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insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
You've got a great attitude. Much better than mine would be!Sorry it took so long to respond. I have been busy at work and life.Watching my kid's high school robots Team 971 "Spartan Robotics" compete in the San Fransisco FIRST regional (videos) competition. Kinda proud. ;-)
Ok...here is what I just posted on a YouTube comment in the brake video:
"The Tesla Model 3 brakes are obviously not designed for this [track day]. No surprise. What is promising is that the Model 3 lasted the session without thermal limiting. EVs lasting this long on a track is still a new thing. We are not there yet, but this year is promising for what could happen with performance EV modifications and potential tracking.
I (and many others in the industry) are still looking for performance 3rd party brake pads...they don't exist, YET... There are some options to make custom performance brake pads that we are looking into, but those will be expensive. Unplugged Performance is offer front carbon ceramics, but they are very expensive (~$9K).
There is also an option to use Model S pads and cut them down to fit. This might be a short term option, since the Model S pad compound is better than the stock Model 3.
Tesla currently doesn't offer Model 3 pads for sale by themselves. Not an option at all...YET. Apparently, Brembo doesn't YET sell Tesla Model 3 brake pads separately from the brake system (rotors/pads/calipers), so complete set needs to be replaced...at this point in time. Yes...that is rough, but that is what is happening right now.
Leave you all with a positive note here...the market is listening and there will be solutions coming. Just not right now. EV performance modifications is coming."
Here is the final cost brake down (Total was: $3,101.75):
View attachment 288456
shrspeedblade
Rideshare Monkey
There is a real market for modestly priced big brake kits for Model 3. Hope the aftermarket jumps on it!
iwannam3
Active Member
A local tire chain here insists on replacing calipers on any routine brake job so I don't think it is so unusual.
(I just use them for free flat repair)
From their website:
Disc Brake Repair and Services
- Install quality brake pads and remanufactured calipers
- Resurface rotors
- Replace brake fluid
- Repack wheel bearings and install new front seals (when serviceable)
- Adjust brake components
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shrspeedblade
Rideshare Monkey
Yes. I have most of the original parts (4 rotors, 4 calipers, left/rear pads). Both front pads and right rear are gone. I did make it clear that I wanted all parts back, but it was an honest mistake on Tesla's part.
I will take some photos / video of those this weekend and share.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
$3101.75 is pretty outrageous. I've never heard of any other car manufacturer forcing you to replace the calipers whenever you replace the brake pads. Is that the case for the Model S/X too? I'm surprised that the brake rotors and pads are unique to Tesla.
Model S rotors are $330 each. Not $90. Similar repair would be ~$8500.
The "other" M3, at the time I owned it, had rotors that are priced at $650 EACH.
I'm extremely skeptical that carbon ceramic rotors would be of any use at all, and that they wouldn't actually end up being a hinderance in normal driving situations. Keeping in mind that regen is supposed to make up the majority of what would be normal, every day slowing down. So you'd effectively be constantly using the pads and rotors at their coldest temperature. Then, every time you need to do a brake job on the thing, you're paying something in the neighborhood of 15% of the original cost of the vehicle? For a 30% premium on the original price, you could probably just get the "P" version whenever it comes out and be ahead of the game.
That's fairly unfortunate. But honestly, $3k for pads, rotors, calipers, and I presume all the hardware needed all around? That's nothing. I mean, sure, if you're comparing it to your honda civic it seems insane. But for anybody that has purchased actual expensive brake kits knows, $3 grand isn't much at all. Given the parts shortages everyone keeps talking about, I'm a little glad I'm waiting for my AWD.
Anyway, thanks for posting the original videos, and for following up.
(Psssssst.......they're fleecing you!)
Not necessarily. My own fleet of +100k mile cars occasionally need a new caliper due to deposit build up in the piston bore. If this place deals with high mileage, infrequently maintained vehicles, then caliper replacement is not a crazy CYA.
However, doing it on a 3 year old 40k mile car is excessive and can run into other issues. (Had a bad replacement caliper one time, very annoying).
shrspeedblade
Rideshare Monkey
A local tire chain here insists on replacing calipers on any routine brake job so I don't think it is so unusual.
Emphasis mine. I stand by my earlier statement.
(I've been doing my own brake jobs for 25+ years on American, Japanese, and German cars going back far enough I've done drums. I'm also a track rat who has done more pad swaps/fluid flushes than I care to remember. I may have been tongue-in-cheek in my response, but not in my message, that this behavior is not practiced by reputable mechanics. Certainly caliper inspection and an occasional replacement is part of a good brake job, but I'm not surprised to hear of your bad replacement as overall I'd have more faith in a good functioning OEM caliper over an aftermarket replacement.)
I'm not saying this specific Tesla service center did anything nefarious, but neither is it acceptable for a car that's been in production for months to not have brake pads available. Unless the heat from the track day somehow damaged or made the calipers questionable the correct thing to do would be to remove the pads and swap them into the customer's car- the new calipers can be used on a later job and you lose nothing.
Emphasis mine. I stand by my earlier statement.
(I've been doing my own brake jobs for 25+ years on American, Japanese, and German cars going back far enough I've done drums. I'm also a track rat who has done more pad swaps/fluid flushes than I care to remember. I may have been tongue-in-cheek in my response, but not in my message, that this behavior is not practiced by reputable mechanics. Certainly caliper inspection and an occasional replacement is part of a good brake job, but I'm not surprised to hear of your bad replacement as overall I'd have more faith in a good functioning OEM caliper over an aftermarket replacement.)
I'm not saying this specific Tesla service center did anything nefarious, but neither is it acceptable for a car that's been in production for months to not have brake pads available. Unless the heat from the track day somehow damaged or made the calipers questionable the correct thing to do would be to remove the pads and swap them into the customer's car- the new calipers can be used on a later job and you lose nothing.
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(Psssssst.......they're fleecing you!)
Maybe. They also probably don't have mechanics skilled enough to service a caliper, including checking its function. You don't want the car back after their guys have attempted a repair on the caliper internals.
That's been the trend with many serviceable parts, take for example pressed bushings in control arms. $5 part and 15 minutes of labor for a *skilled* mechanic, versus a $300 control arm with a new bushing installed.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I've never replaced the calipers on any car I've owned and I have one at 150k miles. I thought I was being sort of silly replacing the discs with every pad change! I didn't realize that some calipers require service. I've only owned Japanese cars though.
In San Diego, maybe. A boot failure will lead to replacement. Also anywhere north, water and salt eventually corrode the pistons beyond repair. You can try and sand them down, but it will increase the wall tolerance and cause future jams.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Ah. Cars last forever here. My 12.5 year old car still has zero rust. I've also never seen cracking of the boots. I would certainly just replace the calipers before sanding down the pistons!
Please contact cobalt friction or carbotech. If you have the old plates, they should be able to make it for you. They custom made my pads for my last car. The materials are the same, they just need dimensions @mattcrowley
This is why I am trying to talk my wife into getting the new Alfa instead of the 3 so I can properly track it....
The boot on the 4 piston caliper of my track day car had been melted since the first track day at 800 miles. It now has 50 track days and went though 10 set of pads, they still work fine.
This is why I am trying to talk my wife into getting the new Alfa instead of the 3 so I can properly track it....
The boot on the 4 piston caliper of my track day car had been melted since the first track day at 800 miles. It now has 50 track days and went though 10 set of pads, they still work fine.
Sorry it took so long to respond. I have been busy at work and life.
Ok...here is what I just posted on a YouTube comment in the brake video:
"The Tesla Model 3 brakes are obviously not designed for this [track day]. No surprise. What is promising is that the Model 3 lasted the session without thermal limiting. EVs lasting this long on a track is still a new thing. We are not there yet, but this year is promising for what could happen with performance EV modifications and potential tracking.
I (and many others in the industry) are still looking for performance 3rd party brake pads...they don't exist, YET... There are some options to make custom performance brake pads that we are looking into, but those will be expensive. Unplugged Performance is offer front carbon ceramics, but they are very expensive (~$9K).
There is also an option to use Model S pads and cut them down to fit. This might be a short term option, since the Model S pad compound is better than the stock Model 3.
Tesla currently doesn't offer Model 3 pads for sale by themselves. Not an option at all...YET. Apparently, Brembo doesn't YET sell Tesla Model 3 brake pads separately from the brake system (rotors/pads/calipers), so complete set needs to be replaced...at this point in time. Yes...that is rough, but that is what is happening right now.
Leave you all with a positive note here...the market is listening and there will be solutions coming. Just not right now. EV performance modifications is coming."
Here is the final cost brake down (Total was: $3,101.75):
View attachment 288456
Chopr147
Active Member
Thanks for the track day testing. Fun to watch and learn. Many years ago I did a track day with my Corvette and had a blast. Great way to REALLY learn a cars limits.
As far as the brakes I guess I should be thankful. Tesla did a brake recall on my 2016 Model S.
Recall: "The parking brake, once engaged, might experience a fractured internal gear."
My receipt showed Tesla replaced all 4 rotors and all brake pads. I thought that was weird but only noticed after leaving so I didn't ask about it.
As far as the brakes I guess I should be thankful. Tesla did a brake recall on my 2016 Model S.
Recall: "The parking brake, once engaged, might experience a fractured internal gear."
My receipt showed Tesla replaced all 4 rotors and all brake pads. I thought that was weird but only noticed after leaving so I didn't ask about it.
LOL no. Civic starts at 18k and tops out at 26k, although anyone is a fool if they pay MSRP for a civic. Entirely different category.
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