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In the end at $22,500 for 90 kWh gets you $250/kWh retail price. That probably means $200/kWh cost to Tesla to manufacture it?
That $250 seems to be the same unit price Nissan sells its 24 kWh packs replacements for $6k.
So how much Tesla has a cost advantage as of today over Nissan seems questionable. Although the Gigafactory is expected to change that.
That $250 seems to be the same unit price Nissan sells its 24 kWh packs replacements for $6k.
So how much Tesla has a cost advantage as of today over Nissan seems questionable. Although the Gigafactory is expected to change that.
Yes but you aren't accounting for the sophistication of the Tesla pack vs. the Nissan pack. Are the Nissan packs liquid cooled now?
If the product material describes that it is made using refurbished or recycled parts, then yes, they could certainly do it - but then would people buy it? But if they describe it as an all-new product, without clear disclosures that they are reusing formerly-used components, they're setting themselves up for some challenges.
EarlyAdopter
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Used cells seem like they'd be a good fit for the commercial Powerpack. I can't imagine utilities or large businesses care what's inside the cabinets, used or new, so long as Tesla upholds the warranty and performance of the Powerpack.
Retail replacement probably has little bearing on actual manufacturing cost. The assumption (based on corporate wording) is that the Leaf pack is sold at a loss. I've also not heard of anyone actually buying it (forums) so the "loss" may be just theoretical. Either way, trying to compute manufacturing cost is tough.
Retail replacement parts for autos of course tend to be high multiples of manufacturing cost.
Used batteries sounds great but it is a logistic nightmare. Someday. But not in 2015. So the core is only valuable from a research standpoint. It would take huge scale to make it worthwhile.
$22500 is better than the $38k that was used on insurance claims for replacement cost. Perhaps the core is valued at $15500? Or perhaps $38k was a number pulled out of a hat.
Retail replacement parts for autos of course tend to be high multiples of manufacturing cost.
Used batteries sounds great but it is a logistic nightmare. Someday. But not in 2015. So the core is only valuable from a research standpoint. It would take huge scale to make it worthwhile.
$22500 is better than the $38k that was used on insurance claims for replacement cost. Perhaps the core is valued at $15500? Or perhaps $38k was a number pulled out of a hat.
Logically, you're right. Subconsciously, they'd have a marketing problem. They would have to disclose that they were using used battery modules, and you don't know what goes on in the subconscious mind once a procurement manager reads that. "Used? Why are we paying so much for used equipment? Can I get these on eBay instead? Do I need a different contract, or more detailed contract to deal with warranty issues because they utilized used equipment? ...etc..." It can slow down the process and/or turn some buyers off just because of the subconscious implication of using used.
I have no problem with reconditioned/refurbished equipment - I find it's a great deal. But I know a great number of people who would never buy the refurbished product because of a perceived problem with them.
(For those of you who have ever been to a Fry's Electronics before - they take returns for motherboards / video cards / etc. and put "returned / checked" stickers on them... While I've waited for my own purchases, I've watched in the store as consumers want a specific motherboard model, but purchase another brand/model new because the only ones left on the shelf have the "returned" sticker on them.)
Tesla can't use refurbished components in the new products. Period. In common senses, new products should be made of only new components.
They could use them at Superchargers to lessen demand charges though.
They could use them at Superchargers to lessen demand charges though.
The figure was closer to $45,000 and it came from someone who started a thread here about damage to the underside of their pack from a collision. The collision was not sufficient to penetrate the pack, but it deformed the underside of the metal case necessitating a replacement. His insurance paid for a refurbished battery pack and the cost was in the $40,000-$45,000 range. I also believe this occurred prior to the "no fault" battery warranty being put in place. If I remember correctly, this happened back in late 2013 because I remember it came on the heels of the battery fires.
It would seem the cost of a new pack has dropped by more than half (the $40k-$45k above was for an 85 refurb pack).
Here is a link to a forum member who also received pricing back in 2013 for an 85 pack:
Battery replacement cost for insurance - Page 2
It's priced similar to a core for a worn out 12v lead acid battery or a worn out power steering rack. I'm not surprised by this. They really can't reuse them, they would recycle them for raw materials.
The good news is that the prices are coming down and it shows an option if battery degradation does happen.
Would it be worth replacing in the long term? Not sure. If they can keep bringing the pricing down and increasing the capacity it might be worthwhile after5-6 years.
It is a bit sticky though requiring the core.
The good news is that the prices are coming down and it shows an option if battery degradation does happen.
Would it be worth replacing in the long term? Not sure. If they can keep bringing the pricing down and increasing the capacity it might be worthwhile after5-6 years.
It is a bit sticky though requiring the core.
EarlyAdopter
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