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Is it expensive? Sure. You are getting a new battery at $250/kWh. They should give more credit for your old battery though. I wonder if they will allow you to keep the old battery to sell or use for a project while still getting the same price. If you already have a 85kWh battery though the upgrade probably doesn't make much sense unless you've put so many miles on it you are down 10-20%. I personally wouldn't consider it if I had an 85 car with Autopilot hardware. For the older cars, probably worth waiting a few more years and picking up a 110kWh car for example with the latest gadgets.
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From the various interview quotes, that's probably about the full retail price of the pack for Tesla, with the gross margin included (On a number of occasions Tesla executives have said the battery is about 1/4 of the cost of a Model S - which presumably should be decreasing as the battery costs slowly fall...)
I'd agree with the comments that this is "we'd really rather keep that pack and put it in a new car instead" type pricing - they either aren't giving any significant value to the pack being turned in, or they're baking in more profit to compensate for the car they could have built instead.
Walter
Tesla called me this morning. This is the same price they quoted me. I told them no way. The very nice woman laughed and I got the sense that she wasn't surprised.
I think about it this way (with regard to the credit): Tesla really has no good use for your used battery pack. They can't take it and place it in a new car; all they can do is refurb it and keep it as a service loaner and/or service replacement, and I suspect they already have a good stock of service packs.
Oh that's great. It costs more to add 5kwh capacity than 25 kWh (referencing the 60-85 upgrade that happened two years ago).
What say all you that are thinking of heeding Elon's advice and waiting for a larger capacity pack to be available?
Precisely. And this will always be the case in the future.
They have an enormous need for grid storage at SpC.
If you were a Powerwall customer, then, you'd be satisfied getting parts of someone else's used car pack as part of your new Powerwall?
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I don't doubt there's a need in some locations, but to this point the superchargers haven't integrated significant amounts of storage, and we don't know what kind of a stockpile Tesla may have. I also believe this is part of the reason that they went to a model where your pack is your pack and is shipped two ways, rather than something like drive units where they swap in a refurb pack and send yours to Fremont, rebuild it, and then use that in another car (like they used to do).
(It should also be noted that outside California, the energy picture is different at superchargers as well. Non-TOD 5 cents per kWh changes a lot of things.)
I reckon they can put a used 85kWh pack in a new 70/70D vehicle and limit it by software.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Can they legally put a used battery pack in a new car and sell it as a new car? There may be some laws that prevent them from doing that.
Hmm, maybe offer the customer the choice of getting either a brand new 70kWh pack, or a reconditioned pack with at least 75kWh capacity for the same price? I know I'd go for the used pack -- I'm getting extra capacity for free, who cares if it's used as long as it has the same warranty?
I'd be happy if tesla offered me multiple power wall units with MY old 85kWh battery included in the 22.5k.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Interesting concept, and interesting point.
Assuming there is a law preventing Tesla from selling a used part in a new car, as I expect there may be, I wonder if they'd be allowed to offer the following, if they had an excess of 85s, (or whatever the battery being turned it at the time happens to be. )
A customer purchases a new 70, but is given an option to accept a used 85, --NOT SOFTWARE LIMITED TO 70-- at no extra charge.
Assuming Tesla would be allowed to do that, it winds up being a great use for the turned in batteries, as Tesla then manages to get excellent value back on them. The only "cost" is any incremental revenue not received from a customer who would have spent the extra money to get an 85, but gets the upgrade "for free" this way. One way Tesla could minimize that would be to not offer the option to everyone. So the only way to be certain you'd get an 85 would be to buy an 85. If you ordered a 70, a couple of weeks before delivery you may or may not get a call, asking you if you want a free upgrade to a used 85.
There may be legal issues with this, but if those could be dealt with, I think a program like this could actually make sense for Tesla. It might allow them to charge less for battery upgrades when the used packs are turned in, which could in turn help increase demand for the cars if people see a more reasonable way to be able to upgrade the packs to larger packs down the road.
Except that this would kill (ok maybe more like seriously dent) their real 85kWh sales.
We learned one thing though : Tesla's base battery cost is >$250/kWh
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Did you read my whole post? I not only pointed that out as a potential problem, but had a solution for it.
Or they could limit that 85kWh to 70 and give guarantee, that it says at 70. When battery suffers degradation, they just tune the software so that it stays at 70. I would rather buy that than new 70 kWhs pack. And that would not destroy 85kWh model sales, because you get more with 85 kWhs pack.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
I really don't see reasonably priced battery upgrades until the Gigafactory is up and running and pumping out batteries like popcorn--and has been for several months. Right now it's in Tesla's best interest to put them in new cars.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
They could also include the bricking protection in the buffer, so these owners *could* get a full 70 kWh our of their battery packs.
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