Model S range and interior update imminent?

[GaryW]

I hope she loves her new car.

I rent cars all the time, and I see noticeable improvements, even in vehicles like the Chrysler 300.

Do you know if her Range Rover will get over the air updates?

 

[K-MTG]

Just give me some actual blind spot detection....my $44k Acura has that and I need it on my X....can’t see anything behind me because of my sunshades

 

[Xenoilphobe]

A few weeks ago my wife took delivery of a new Range Rover Autobiography. I was shocked at how far competitive automotive electronics has come. I'll just focus on one feature. The car has several external cameras, and is able to seamlessly stitch their views together into a simulated overhead picture of the car's surroundings. It can do this in real time so you can watch your maneuvers as if from a drone hovering overhead. The car itself is a CGI image. In the picture below, you can see my red P85D charging next to the new Rover in our garage.

View attachment 256702

This model Range Rover is comparably priced to the kind of Tesla it's sitting next to, but in terms of usability and stability, its consumer-facing electronics blows away what Tesla now offers, except for the size of the map on the Model S screen (although the Rover map shows real-time traffic, just like Tesla's). The Autobiography will even use it's cameras and intelligence to back a horse trailer exactly where you want it to go, which is something this driver finds difficult to do! All of this functionality has the fingerprints of MobilEye all over it.

My point is that I fear Tesla's monomaniacal focus on trying to crack automated driving has led it to ignore a lot of functionalities that are becoming competitive check-off items against other high-end car brands. And to return to the original topic of this thread, please don't even get me started on the quality of the Autobiography interior (again, for the same price as a P100D) which argues for Tesla's need to upgrade its offering soon. While Tesla says "no, you can't have leather," Rover says "would you like the Autobiography ceiling to be an alcantara-equivalent, or would you like it (where it is not panorama glass) to be entirely covered with beautifully-stitched soft leather like the rest of the upholstery, no extra charge (which is to say for a price equivalent to a P100D)" We chose the leather.

Range Rover - used to be a great work vehicle, we had one in Africa many years go in the early 80s - and when it wasn't having issues, it was an absolutely awesome off-road vehicle. The Autobiography is far from the heritage of Range Rover, they basically made it a 4 wheel drive S500 and increased the price to $200K to exploit a market that thinks this is a Rolex on wheels. I miss the real Range Rovers pre -TATA purchase and the old Toyota Landcruisers we used to beat the hell out of, they used to be a working mans SUV, now it's just another overpriced SUV that you don't want to put your muddy wet dog in. Give me a Camel Trophy any day.

BTW I agree with your assessment of Tesla's monomaniacal (btw love this word) focus on something the market is not asking for, it is absolutely distracting Tesla from it's future peer competitors (Range Rover isn't one of them). About the only thing RR and Teslas have in common is that RR sells about 75,000 units a year and their average price is about the same as Tesla, also their buyers are about the same average age RR's are ~ 48 years old and usually women (60%)and an average household income of ~$500K. Tesla's average age is for the S & X is ~53 years old with an average annual household income ~$500K and 80% of the time driven by men.

If they ever make a Camel Trophy Electric I would pay $200K for it!

 

[Burnt Toast]

A few weeks ago my wife took delivery of a new Range Rover Autobiography. I was shocked at how far competitive automotive electronics has come. I'll just focus on one feature. The car has several external cameras, and is able to seamlessly stitch their views together into a simulated overhead picture of the car's surroundings. It can do this in real time so you can watch your maneuvers as if from a drone hovering overhead. The car itself is a CGI image. In the picture below, you can see my red P85D charging next to the new Rover in our garage.

View attachment 256702

This model Range Rover is comparably priced to the kind of Tesla it's sitting next to, but in terms of usability and stability, its consumer-facing electronics blows away what Tesla now offers, except for the size of the map on the Model S screen (although the Rover map shows real-time traffic, just like Tesla's). The Autobiography will even use it's cameras and intelligence to back a horse trailer exactly where you want it to go, which is something this driver finds difficult to do! All of this functionality has the fingerprints of MobilEye all over it.

My point is that I fear Tesla's monomaniacal focus on trying to crack automated driving has led it to ignore a lot of functionalities that are becoming competitive check-off items against other high-end car brands. And to return to the original topic of this thread, please don't even get me started on the quality of the Autobiography interior (again, for the same price as a P100D) which argues for Tesla's need to upgrade its offering soon. While Tesla says "no, you can't have leather," Rover says "would you like the Autobiography ceiling to be an alcantara-equivalent, or would you like it (where it is not panorama glass) to be entirely covered with beautifully-stitched soft leather like the rest of the upholstery, no extra charge (which is to say for a price equivalent to a P100D)" We chose the leather.

I think the generally consensus is that you are wrong about this, the Range Rover touch screen system is panned throughout the automotive media. It's seen as slow, unintuitive and unresponsive. It is often to the Tesla system in articles and shown as the worst in breed. The 360 cameras are great, but they are standard on many cars (and I don't think mobile eye has anything to do with anything in the Range Rover). Tesla should implement 360 cameras. The system is so bad, that it's just been replaced by a much more up to date system across the Range Rover range, which is seen as a huge improvement, but still inferior to the Tesla system. Every review of the new system has said that the second screen is great when you are stationary, but impossible to use on the move. I feel that the new car feeling and rose tinted googles has tainted your view, and maybe after using it for a while your view will align with the general consensus.

Here is the new system (looks like you just missed out).

New Range Rover 2018 gets hybrid version and incredible new interior

 

[sillydriver]

I think the generally consensus is that you are wrong about this, the Range Rover touch screen system is panned throughout the automotive media. It's seen as slow, unintuitive and unresponsive. It is often to the Tesla system in articles and shown as the worst in breed. The 360 cameras are great, but they are standard on many cars (and I don't think mobile eye has anything to do with anything in the Range Rover). Tesla should implement 360 cameras. The system is so bad, that it's just been replaced by a much more up to date system across the Range Rover range, which is seen as a huge improvement, but still inferior to the Tesla system. Every review of the new system has said that the second screen is great when you are stationary, but impossible to use on the move. I feel that the new car feeling and rose tinted googles has tainted your view, and maybe after using it for a while your view will align with the general consensus.

Here is the new system (looks like you just missed out).

New Range Rover 2018 gets hybrid version and incredible new interior

I get my choice of which one to drive when my wife isn't using hers, and my usual pick is the P85DL, which I love because of the instant high performance and handling thanks to the pre-May 2015 stiff suspension. Its being electric in order to save the planet is okay too. So my glasses aren't tinted against Tesla: I want them to succeed, hence my post as a warning against the "monomaniacal" focus on self-driving at the exclusion of other competitive features expected in high end cars. I want them to get sales.

In fact your comment supports my point. I have only these two cars to compare. I have direct comparative hands on experience that satisfies me the Rover has a better consumer electronic experience (for example, if I put a music flash drive in the Rover it plays the music - it never says "loading error"). Yet you say the Rover system is panned by the experts. If that is right then Tesla is really behind the other high end brands it's competing with. Tesla should pay more attention to this issue. I want them to do so because I want them to succeed.

 

[sillydriver]

Just give me some actual blind spot detection....my $44k Acura has that and I need it on my X....can’t see anything behind me because of my sunshades

The Rover I spoke of has good blind spot detection that lights up on the wing mirrors, as it should. If you are backing out of a parking space it uses cameras to detect cars traveling in the lane you are backing into. It beeps before I can notice those cars driving into the field of the backup camera.

Tesla can easily add all of this stuff: they just need to shift resources, so they are doing more than tilting at the self-driving windmill.

 

[sillydriver]

Here is the new system (looks like you just missed out).

New Range Rover 2018 gets hybrid version and incredible new interior

This is our fifth Rover. Because of the brand's reliability issues, I like to buy models after they have had a couple years to sort out. I knew the facelift was coming for 2018, but I had heard the supercharged V8 was going to be replaced by a smaller displacement turbo V8 for the sake of fuel economy. I was mistaken - the news is that the supercharged V8 stays. The facelift basically shifts to LED headlights and adds a second equal-sized (much wider than tall) touchscreen below the main one -- the one I photographed above -- which retains its dimensions. The second screen replaces some knobs on the console. I also was afraid that the new LED headlights wouldn't illuminate as well as the old HIDs (as was true of the Model S). Whether that is true of the Rover remains to be seen. Seeing the new rectilinear headlight treatment I frankly like the old look more. So overall I remain satisfied having ordered in June (3 month lead-time) to buy at the end of the 2017 model year.

 

[sillydriver]

The Autobiography is far from the heritage of Range Rover, they basically made it a 4 wheel drive S500 and increased the price to $200K to exploit a market that thinks this is a Rolex on wheels.

At least I bought the short wheelbase -- not the long one that has reclining back seats and is meant to be used as a limousine in China. Also, it's only $145k, even with special-order dark green "ultrametalic" paint (which reminds me of the laughable difference in the scope of paint choices between the Autobiography and Model S -- another place where Tesla could easily do better).

 

[sillydriver]

I hope she loves her new car.

Do you know if her Range Rover will get over the air updates?

It gets map updates and traffic over the air, but it follows standard ICE car practice in that I don't expect new firmware or functionality updates.

 

[smac]

Monomaniacal is my new word of the day

I agree Tesla were miles ahead of the game back in 2012. Things have moved on in the broader industry, and Tesla have stood still (for everything apart from AP). It was a big reason I pulled out of upgrading my car to a new S. It was just like being in my old car once behind the wheel.

It's not just Range Rover, I almost bought my wife an XC90 T8. That too is wildly improved over MY13 cars, with more stuff going to the touchscreen, but leaving enough physical switch-gear from an ergonomics POV ( I'm sorry if the Model S get's the stalks from the Model 3, with wipers and cruise speed set on the touchscreen only, then it's immediately off the table as an option for me... it would drive me nuts).

Somewhat controversially I actually lay some of the blame for this situation on the fans. Any constructive criticism of anything Tesla leads to almost immediate accusations of being a short/fudster/big oil lobbyist. I'm sure this doesn't help Tesla break out of their sometimes insular/complacent views. (Something I think we are both on the same page about for Tesla's long term success)

 

[sillydriver]

The 360 cameras are great, but they are standard on many cars (and I don't think mobile eye has anything to do with anything in the Range Rover)

I don't know for sure, but the Rover has camera-based features that feel awfully familiar to this owner of a MobilEye AP1-based P85D. Our Rover reads speed limit signs, which it displays on the car's all-LCD instrument panel in a way that looks identical to their display in the P85D. BTW, it also displays the speed limit right next to the Rover's current speed in our Autobiography's very nice laser-based HUD. Because of the HUD, the whole instrument panel can be permanently turned into a map display sitting conveniently just below your line of sight while driving (not off to the side as in a Tesla, especially an M3). If you do want instruments, the gauges come in four different visual styles, which are user selectable. The collision warning sound also triggers in just about the same circumstances as the P85D and makes the same sound. The auto-dimming high-beams on the Autobiography work so well that Rover is confident enough for the default to be high-beams ON: the car detects when high-beams are suitable for use with no headlights or tail lights in view, rather than your pushing the stalk forward to turn them on and having the system just turn them off when it sees another car's lights. And comparing the two cars at night, the Rover's high-beam control makes decisions that are a bit better than the P85D's.

My point is that Tesla's push to develop self-driving in house is forcing it to reinvent from scratch all these ancillary camera-based functions, which vendors like MobilEye (or whoever sells to Rover) happily supply as highly evolved systems to all of Tesla's competitors. No intermittent wipers for you, Tesla AP2 customers! This is another downside of that "monomaniacal" focus.

 

[calisnow]

Range Rover - used to be a great work vehicle, we had one in Africa many years go in the early 80s - and when it wasn't having issues, it was an absolutely awesome off-road vehicle. The Autobiography is far from the heritage of Range Rover, they basically made it a 4 wheel drive S500 and increased the price to $200K to exploit a market that thinks this is a Rolex on wheels. I miss the real Range Rovers pre -TATA purchase and the old Toyota Landcruisers we used to beat the hell out of, they used to be a working mans SUV, now it's just another overpriced SUV that you don't want to put your muddy wet dog in. Give me a Camel Trophy any day.

BTW I agree with your assessment of Tesla's monomaniacal (btw love this word) focus on something the market is not asking for, it is absolutely distracting Tesla from it's future peer competitors (Range Rover isn't one of them). About the only thing RR and Teslas have in common is that RR sells about 75,000 units a year and their average price is about the same as Tesla, also their buyers are about the same average age RR's are ~ 48 years old and usually women (60%)and an average household income of ~$500K. Tesla's average age is for the S & X is ~53 years old with an average annual household income ~$500K and 80% of the time driven by men.

If they ever make a Camel Trophy Electric I would pay $200K for it!

View attachment 256719

You just openly insulted - for absolutely no reason - a man and wife who spent a lot of money on a new Range Rover. The guy was just making a point about what's available with the competition interior-wise and you take the opportunity to insult his choice of SUV? Feel good about yourself? Feel accomplished?

 

[VT_EE]

Under the Model 3 topic here on TMC there have been some calculation that founds out that if you take 80,5 kWh wish EPA says and that there is 4466 cells of the 2170 format and calculate the Wh per volume it’s the same as the 18650 cells Tesla use in the existing 100 kWh pack for Model S and X. So the only benefit you get with switchInt to 2170 cells is that they are 8% higher and therefore should be able to store 110 kWh if the existing pack can store 102 kWh. This is of course under the circumstances that Tesla can redesign the battery pack so that it can fit 8% higher cells and still have the same dimensions on the outside.

Not the only benefit: Max charging current according to Tesla's Model 3 EPA filing is 525 amps, which is far greater than the current S & X packs. Combine this with Supercharger v3 and your pit stop times will be drastically reduced. This leads me to believe either Tesla has some new super, duper cooling system, or the 2170 cell chemistry leads to a very durable battery. Maybe also a combination of both.
https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/datafiles/FOI_HTSLV00.0L13_APPIPT1.PDF

 

[sillydriver]

You just openly insulted - for absolutely no reason - a man and wife who spent a lot of money on a new Range Rover. The guy was just making a point about what's available with the competition interior-wise and you take the opportunity to insult his choice of SUV? Feel good about yourself? Feel accomplished?

FWIW, I appreciate the defense but I actually liked his post (and graded it thus). I took no offense and enjoyed seeing the utilitarian first-generation rover.

 

[smac]

I don't know for sure, but the Rover has camera-based features that feel awfully familiar to this owner of a MobilEye AP1-based P85D. Our Rover reads speed limit signs, which it displays on the car's all-LCD instrument panel in a way that looks identical to their display in the P85D.

No doubt leveraging MobilEye tech:

Jaguar Land Rover Places Latest Automaker Bet on Israel Car Tech

Likely a later version of the stuff Tesla shipped in the P85D, if not in the MY17 JLR cars (and I am on board with your choice to give some bedding in time for new models esp.with JLR products), but MY18 will undoubtedly go EyeQ v4 or EyeQ5

 

[Xenoilphobe]

You just openly insulted - for absolutely no reason - a man and wife who spent a lot of money on a new Range Rover. The guy was just making a point about what's available with the competition interior-wise and you take the opportunity to insult his choice of SUV? Feel good about yourself? Feel accomplished?

I really didn't mean to insult him. I love the the old RR,s and I agree with his comments on Tesla. If you have driven the Audiobiography you would know my comments are accurate, it IS a Rolex on wheels when compared to the spartan Tesla. It's all personal preference, my preference is utility and his/hers is luxury and he's a Tesla owner so we already know he has good taste.

To my middleburg neighbor. Mea Culpa. I hope you got Velocity Blue or British racing green my wife's two favorite RR colors.

Calisnow thanks for putting me in my place. Im a shizhead.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

FWIW, I appreciate the defense but I actually liked his post (and graded it thus). I took no offense and enjoyed seeing the utilitarian first-generation rover.

Thank you on both accounts.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

At least I bought the short wheelbase -- not the long one that has reclining back seats and is meant to be used as a limousine in China. Also, it's only $145k, even with special-order dark green "ultrametalic" paint (which reminds me of the laughable difference in the scope of paint choices between the Autobiography and Model S -- another place where Tesla could easily do better).

Nice! I like the green, they have like 50 color options some are upward of $9K. So I laugh when people complain about $1500 for white.

 

[bhzmark]

I appreciate it helps keep revenue up

I don't see how abandoning the practice of rolling out changes only at model years increases revenues. Maybe it does, indirectly, only in the sense of getting technological advancements out to the consumer as soon as possible without artificial constraints of model years.

I see no benefit to delaying car changes to only be released upon a new model year announcement.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

A few weeks ago my wife took delivery of a new Range Rover Autobiography. I was shocked at how far competitive automotive electronics has come. I'll just focus on one feature. The car has several external cameras, and is able to seamlessly stitch their views together into a simulated overhead picture of the car's surroundings. It can do this in real time so you can watch your maneuvers as if from a drone hovering overhead. The car itself is a CGI image. In the picture below, you can see my red P85D charging next to the new Rover in our garage.

Yep, most cars nowadays, even cheap cars can do that - except Teslas of course.

The new Audi A8 can even generate a rotateable and zoomable 3D view: