Model S range and interior update imminent?

[S4WRXTTCS]

As a 2015 Model S owner I'm not entirely sure what to do.

I have the resale guarantee so I could turn my car into Tesla in June of this year for the amount they promised on the paperwork. This just really matches what i owe on it. But, that's a bad move because in WA state if you trade in a car (that's being financed) they only charge you sales tax on the difference in value between the two cars. So if I turn it in then I lose that.

If I keep the car then I risk the resale price dropping like a rock. It's held up right now largely because the Model 3 isn't readily available. So people are willing to get a CPO Model S versus waiting for a new 3. There aren't that many people that need their car to be the size of a spaceship. I wish there were then I wouldn't have to worry about resale

I can't trade it in because the current 75D isn't enough of an upgrade over my AP1 70D.

I'm too addicted to the Supercharger network to get anything else.

I did just now reserve a Model 3 because its abundantly clear to me that they applied on the lessons they learned from the S when they designed it. I have to say I'm pretty excited by the reviews, and what they've done with that car.

>300miles
Fast responsive infotainment system
awesome HVAC system
A significant savings versus the 75.

 

[FutureShock]

I don't know what you came from pre-Tesla but as someone that came from BMWs and Audis I find the Tesla interior to be severely lacking in the luxury department. I know not everyone shares this view but luxury cars these are not. And that's ok! It's still an amazing car. I think the comment that Tesla isn't going to refresh the interior is a little naive though because as more and more Model 3 review videos come out you're seeing what's effectively an identical quality (if not nicer and more practical than the S) interior and you're seeing it on a car that's tens of thousands of dollars downmarket from the S.

Tesla HAS to differentiate the S from the 3, and as competitors roll out with flagship electric cars they're not going to get a pass on the lackluster interior anymore. Me specifically, if Audi came out with an electric A8 with a cruise control similar to AP1 tomorrow I would ditch the S so fast it's low quality headlights would spin.

But again, that's all ok. I have every bit of confidence that they know what they need to do and that they're going to do it. With the refresh I'd argue that the S is the best looking sedan at any price range. Get me an interior that's on par with that and I'm ready to go with S number 4.

Well said.

.

 

[dieterdp]

The problem is not only the interior but also the state of the autopilot.There are rumors about new hardware news coming soon,

it's a diffult time to make a descion , i am currently waiting to put an order on a Model S

 

[WarpedOne]

One can wait, but life can not.

 

[alehbaba]

i would wait till AFTER the model 3 is in showrooms and avail to testdrive at sales places. Noone should be in a hurry to drop 69-100k on any poor investment as a car.

After the 3 is out for reals you can test drive it and the s and then i would wait another 6 months at least after that to even think about a purchase knowing teslas M.O.
This way you will have drove all that tesla has to offer and can likely decide if the s or 3 are worth the investments and are really so different as to be 3x the cost.
I am sure you have a car now you like and can wait. Dont let the ev incentive drive you.

 

[BinaryField]

i would wait till AFTER the model 3 is in showrooms and avail to testdrive at sales places. Noone should be in a hurry to drop 69-100k on any poor investment as a car.

After the 3 is out for reals you can test drive it and the s and then i would wait another 6 months at least after that to even think about a purchase knowing teslas M.O.
This way you will have drove all that tesla has to offer and can likely decide if the s or 3 are worth the investments and are really so different as to be 3x the cost.
I am sure you have a car now you like and can wait. Dont let the ev incentive drive you.

Acting on this advice could leave someone waiting for a long, long time. I think Elon himself has said that they don't want to advertise or showcase the Model 3 for a while, because demand for it is already vastly greater than supply. This falls in line with their anti-sale strategy as well, by trying to get people to convert their reservations into Model S orders.

 

[Speedr117]

I think the last chance to see any real changes for the foreseeable future will be at the Semi/Truck event on the 16th. If that doesn't yield any new updates, I bet it'll be summer/fall of 2018 before anything major happens.

 

[lakerholic]

I don't know for sure, but the Rover has camera-based features that feel awfully familiar to this owner of a MobilEye AP1-based P85D. Our Rover reads speed limit signs, which it displays on the car's all-LCD instrument panel in a way that looks identical to their display in the P85D. BTW, it also displays the speed limit right next to the Rover's current speed in our Autobiography's very nice laser-based HUD. Because of the HUD, the whole instrument panel can be permanently turned into a map display sitting conveniently just below your line of sight while driving (not off to the side as in a Tesla, especially an M3). If you do want instruments, the gauges come in four different visual styles, which are user selectable. The collision warning sound also triggers in just about the same circumstances as the P85D and makes the same sound. The auto-dimming high-beams on the Autobiography work so well that Rover is confident enough for the default to be high-beams ON: the car detects when high-beams are suitable for use with no headlights or tail lights in view, rather than your pushing the stalk forward to turn them on and having the system just turn them off when it sees another car's lights. And comparing the two cars at night, the Rover's high-beam control makes decisions that are a bit better than the P85D's.

My point is that Tesla's push to develop self-driving in house is forcing it to reinvent from scratch all these ancillary camera-based functions, which vendors like MobilEye (or whoever sells to Rover) happily supply as highly evolved systems to all of Tesla's competitors. No intermittent wipers for you, Tesla AP2 customers! This is another downside of that "monomaniacal" focus.

Amen! I'm on my second MS, and am so happy that my "refresh" was an AP1 car... at least everything in it works as advertised (well, you know, except the whole summon the car to your front door marketing nonsense. ). When AP2 cars first had AP activated and I read about some of the issues drivers were experiencing, I posted somewhere on these forums about how Musk was going backwards by reinventing the wheel that Mobile Eye had created re: AP, TACC, etc... and it seemed to be ego driven.., and I was of course roundly criticized for not giving Tesla a chance...well, now almost 14-15 mo later, we're seeing how difficult it can be to compete with the preeminent leader in the category.

I will say this re: Tesla/MobileEye: I have yet to experience a better TACC than in my two MS. The following distance is perfect, the resumption of cruise is great, and it just plain works as well at 80mph as it does at 30mph. I've driven newer BMWs, Volvos, RR/Jaguars and Lexus with their version of TACC, and felt let down by the massive gaps these cars left for following distance (Lexus by far the worst).. so kudos to Tesla for pushing the envelop in working with MobileEye the first time around in getting these distances to match what "real world" drivers would be doing. I have read (and others have posted) Subaru's TACC seems to be very good... I wonder if it's as good in follow distance as Teslas... but I digress.

Lastly, and back on point, Tesla definitely needs an interior refresh and better use of their instrument clusters to get with the times... and a proper blind spot detection system!

 

[smac]

The obvious option for anyone that wants certainty is to buy CPO. You know exactly where you stand, and some of the depreciation sting has been taken out of the purchase.

A huge amount of course depends on personal situation, attitude, and how long you will keep the car.

Speaking purely personally (I historically replace cars as soon as warranty expires), I would never buy a new Tesla again unless on finance (with a GFV). I may consider a nearly new / low mileage CPO as a cash buy though.

YMMV

 

[Julie's MS]

Here's Why the Tesla Model 3 Is the Coolest Car of 2017
Review by:
Doug DeMuro

 

[MrCube]

New guy here also. And wavering on order as well.

I think purchasing currently feels like a big pill to swallow now because of the hardware, not software.

We have the 21-70 batteries in the Model 3, interior cam, upgraded screen, etc.

So we know the S/X will get 21-70 batteries at some stage, and that the S/X is already wired up to accept an interior cam, and that Tesla have switched internal systems with the screen etc. These upgraded changes, logically, are all imminent to the S/X--whether that's on Musk-time or dictionary-definition-time, who knows, but it's a hard pill to swallow to order now when it's obvious changes are coming "soon."

For me I'm factoring in a lifecycle of the car to be 5 years before I trade it in to upgrade. So when I look at, possibly, having the car superseded by upgraded hardware for 4 of those 5 years, I look at it logically and "computer says no." And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I'd much rather Tesla deal with this verbally, get it out in the open and say something like, "Refresh is coming April 2018, and will have this and that, will be priced exactly the same, but we'll be running discounts/offers on older models until they run out. Order whichever "model version" you prefer now, but both can be ordered today."

Until they do that, I'm holding back on pulling the trigger. The loss of orders from buyers like me though is insignificant to the problems they're dealing with regarding Model 3 production (which is essentially "delayed sales" and of a greater number than lost S/X potential sales.)

Hanad, welcome.

Tesla automobiles are software platforms. Those that purchased cars with the 75D configuration are enjoying a terrific improvement in acceleration, provided at no additional charge.

One of the downsides of buying cutting edge technology is you will see newer versions come out. That doesn’t mean a current car is no longer a great car. For most people, Tesla’s are the best cars in the world.

 

[alehbaba]

i think the lifecycle of the ms is more like 8 yrs when battery is out of warranty..they if it craps out you are in for a huge chunk of $$$ if they will even have your old battery pack anymore in 8-10 yrs. I hope so and its cheap or the 2170's battery pack can somehow be retrofitted in the car....or they only have the old batteries avail in the 85kwh size so going to an 85 from a 75d would be ok.

 

[Speedr117]

So new information on this. It appears that all 75Ds (both S and X) show February delivery, while the 100Ds still show December. I also confirmed with my OA that they cannot sell inventory cars anymore. What I take from this is that they are changing something drastic with only the 75s, and not the 100's. That would rule out a major change to the cars, but not the battery. I'm guessing a capacity bump (85?). I'm sure we'll know more next Thursday night (11/16).

 

[Hanad26]

New guy here also. And wavering on order as well.

I think purchasing currently feels like a big pill to swallow now because of the hardware, not software.

We have the 21-70 batteries in the Model 3, interior cam, upgraded screen, etc.

So we know the S/X will get 21-70 batteries at some stage, and that the S/X is already wired up to accept an interior cam, and that Tesla have switched internal systems with the screen etc. These upgraded changes, logically, are all imminent to the S/X--whether that's on Musk-time or dictionary-definition-time, who knows, but it's a hard pill to swallow to order now when it's obvious changes are coming "soon."

For me I'm factoring in a lifecycle of the car to be 5 years before I trade it in to upgrade. So when I look at, possibly, having the car superseded by upgraded hardware for 4 of those 5 years, I look at it logically and "computer says no." And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I'd much rather Tesla deal with this verbally, get it out in the open and say something like, "Refresh is coming April 2018, and will have this and that, will be priced exactly the same, but we'll be running discounts/offers on older models until they run out. Order whichever "model version" you prefer now, but both can be ordered today."

Until they do that, I'm holding back on pulling the trigger. The loss of orders from buyers like me though is insignificant to the problems they're dealing with regarding Model 3 production (which is essentially "delayed sales" and of a greater number than lost S/X potential sales.)

Excellent post. I am also pre-occupied with resale value and tend to hold on to vehicles for the same period of time, perhaps even 8 years. But honestly I doubt very much multiple updates to hardware and software would have occurred even in a 5 year timeline to effectively make a 2017 or 2018 model S maintain any depreciate value.

On another note, Speedr seems like he came across some new information regarding possibility of an interior update perhaps announced on 11/16? I have my 75D scheduled for delivery December-Early January (they pulled it back from late january-early february delivery even though order confirmation was for the end of October. ) which seems like a big deal considering the possibility of the tax credit going away. I have been in close contact my local Tesla and delivery specialist trying to pressure them to contact Tesla about getting the cars out to us before December 31st. Not sure if this will work, don't want to lose out on $7500 in savings.

 

[Hanad26]

Excellent post. I am also pre-occupied with resale value and tend to hold on to vehicles for the same period of time, perhaps even 8 years. But honestly I doubt very much multiple updates to hardware and software would have occurred even in a 5 year timeline to effectively make a 2017 or 2018 model S maintain any depreciate value.

On another note, Speedr seems like he came across some new information regarding possibility of an interior update perhaps announced on 11/16? I have my 75D scheduled for delivery December-Early January (they pulled it back from late january-early february delivery even though order confirmation was for the end of October. ) which seems like a big deal considering the possibility of the tax credit going away. I have been in close contact my local Tesla and delivery specialist trying to pressure them to contact Tesla about getting the cars out to us before December 31st. Not sure if this will work, don't want to lose out on $7500 in savings.

Oops. Don't mind the spanglish there! Grammar and I have been on non-speaking terms.

 

[Grassright]

New guy here also. And wavering on order as well.

I think purchasing currently feels like a big pill to swallow now because of the hardware, not software.

We have the 21-70 batteries in the Model 3, interior cam, upgraded screen, etc.

So we know the S/X will get 21-70 batteries at some stage, and that the S/X is already wired up to accept an interior cam, and that Tesla have switched internal systems with the screen etc. These upgraded changes, logically, are all imminent to the S/X--whether that's on Musk-time or dictionary-definition-time, who knows, but it's a hard pill to swallow to order now when it's obvious changes are coming "soon."

For me I'm factoring in a lifecycle of the car to be 5 years before I trade it in to upgrade. So when I look at, possibly, having the car superseded by upgraded hardware for 4 of those 5 years, I look at it logically and "computer says no." And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I'd much rather Tesla deal with this verbally, get it out in the open and say something like, "Refresh is coming April 2018, and will have this and that, will be priced exactly the same, but we'll be running discounts/offers on older models until they run out. Order whichever "model version" you prefer now, but both can be ordered today."

Until they do that, I'm holding back on pulling the trigger. The loss of orders from buyers like me though is insignificant to the problems they're dealing with regarding Model 3 production (which is essentially "delayed sales" and of a greater number than lost S/X potential sales.)

So basically you are assuming Tesla no longer makes changes after your purchase? No matter when you buy, it will be superceded by later models. Tesla has been making major changes every year, if not more often

 

[CraZ8]

So basically you are assuming Tesla no longer makes changes after your purchase? No matter when you buy, it will be superceded by later models. Tesla has been making major changes every year, if not more often

I believe his thinking process is to be on the near end of a big change so the car can go through life as a more current model which would affect resale value. I used to by used Mercedes and BMWs at about 2/3 years old but always after a major body style change or at least a mid cycle refresh so the car would stay “ current” for at least another 3 years and look like the new ones coming out of the factory. Of course Elon does not play that game quite like the other manufacturers but I bet the S will not change substantially after the coming interior/ tail rework in the second quarter of 2018 for at least a few years. Too much going on as far as resources with the model Y and heavy truck line during that time. The only big question is if the battery will have a new configuration and is it tied to the refresh.

 

[Mark_T]

So new information on this. It appears that all 75Ds (both S and X) show February delivery, while the 100Ds still show December. I also confirmed with my OA that they cannot sell inventory cars anymore. What I take from this is that they are changing something drastic with only the 75s, and not the 100's.

... or they are maximizing revenue from the build slots they have for delivery between now and the end of December, and once they pass the final date for new orders to be delivered by year end you'll see inventory cars back on sale to complete the boost to the sales numbers....

 

[Nda721]

... or they are maximizing revenue from the build slots they have for delivery between now and the end of December, and once they pass the final date for new orders to be delivered by year end you'll see inventory cars back on sale to complete the boost to the sales numbers....

That's exactly what I see happening

 

[RobStark]

When AP2 cars first had AP activated and I read about some of the issues drivers were experiencing, I posted somewhere on these forums about how Musk was going backwards by reinventing the wheel that Mobile Eye had created re: AP, TACC, etc... and it seemed to be ego driven..,

It has nothing to do with ego.

It had to do with Mobile Eye demanding that all the info gleaned from Mobile Eye hardware be Mobile Eye intellectual property.

Like Apple demanding all photos and video taken with iPhones become Apple intellectual property.

Rediculous.

All this mass data being gained from AP Tesla sensors will go to improving AP2 and FSD software. Not going to Mobile Eye/Intel. That is absolutely the right way to go for Tesla.

BTW To answer a post from upthread not a single dollar from Model S sales have gone to SpaceX. SpaceX has purchased Tesla bonds in the past. So, SpaceX satellite rocket launches are helping fund Tesla cars. Not the other way around.