Model S specs

[ckessel]

Frankly, because we're first and we have a couple of additional features (especially the early delivery feature and the additional up-front hand holding that we're getting), I fully expected a surcharge and IMHO $5k is reasonable.

This baffles me. What are you getting for your $5k? If you were like me and had anything remotely early in the P numbers (<3000) you're happy to pay an extra $5k to get the car a few months early? If you were, say, P20, the Sig would be a complete rip off since you'd be barely later than the Sig holders.

Frankly, I'm really pissed the more I think about it. The Sig blurbage certainly never said anything even hinting that the Sig would cost more than an equivalently equipped base car. If I'd known that, I wouldn't have reserved. Now I'm in an really awkward spot and I blame Tesla.

 

[Tommy]

"Additional Standard Equipment $5000" - I do believe that's just saying how much the extra features are worth, because later on it says Napa Leather is included, Active Air Suspension is standard, High Performance Wheels are standard, and High Performance Tires are no-cost option. And those together are $5000.

So for a full-up configuration, with Pano roof but no rear facing seats or HPC, I get:

	Model S	Performance	Signature	Signature Performance
Price 85kWh Battery	$69,900.00	$79,900.00	$87,900.00	$97,900.00
Panoramic Roof	$1,500.00	$1,500.00	$1,500.00	$1,500.00
21” Wheels and Performance Tires	$3,500.00
Leather Seats	$1,500.00
Tech Package	$3,750.00	$3,750.00
Sound Studio	$950.00	$950.00
Air Suspension	$1,500.00
Parcel Shelf (cargo cover)	$250.00	$250.00
Twin Chargers	$1,500.00	$1,500.00
Total	$84,350.00	$87,850.00	$89,400.00	$99,400.00
Delta Signature to Regular			$5,050.00	$11,550.00

So here's the thing: $5,050 seems like a reasonable surcharge for the Signature. But $11,550.00 does NOT seem like a reasonable surcharge for the Signature Performance. Here's why: upgrading to Performance gives you the 21" Wheels and Performance Tires, Leather Seats, and Air Suspension. But Signature already has those options - a total of $6,500.00 of options that you appear to be paying for twice.

I don't think they've thought this through.

I believe the confusion in pricing is the $79,900 price you list does not include the $5,000 price Tesla lists as standard equipment for the Performance version: leather, air suspension and sport wheels. This makes the price of the performance sedan at $84,900 not $79,900. So the difference would be $6,550 not $11,550.

 

[Mycroft]

Now I'm in an really awkward spot and I blame Tesla.

Um, no reason to hyperventilate. Call your rep tomorrow morning and ask if you can revert back to your original P number. I bet you'll be able to.

 

[Doug_G]

Well, for me, any surcharge isn't acceptable. I gave Tesla an extra $35k to play with for a while, I certainly didn't expect a surcharge on top of it.

The premium paint (Shasta Pearl White or Signature Red) is an extra $1,500. So assuming you go for that, the difference is only $3,500.

Obviously there will be some Signature badges and a plaque. That's probably not worth $3,500 but it costs something. What we don't know yet if there are other "style" upgrades or such included in that price difference.

 

[ckessel]

Um, no reason to hyperventilate. Call your rep tomorrow morning and ask if you can revert back to your original P number. I bet you'll be able to.

I asked when I upgraded and was told no at the time. I figured that was ok since there wasn't any reason I could foresee I wouldn't want a feature loaded car. I just didn't expect one of the features to be "donate to Tesla". I get how a Sig reservation has value to someone that'd otherwise be P7500 or something, but for me I was happy with P2800ish and only got the Sig because I figured it was a wash if I was getting the 300 with most of the features.

I'm not hyperventilating, I just feel I was misled and I'm angry.

 

[Andrew Wolfe]

The upgraded models also seem to include some extended leather. "Extensive Leather throughout." I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't some other trim extras on the Sig.

In any case, Tesla has always said they would let Sig reservation holders defer to later. I'm sure that means near the front of regular production - not at the end.

 

[Doug_G]

I believe the confusion in pricing is the $79,900 price you list does not include the $5,000 price Tesla lists as standard equipment for the Performance version: leather, air suspension and sport wheels. This makes the price of the performance sedan at $84,900 not $79,900. So the difference would be $6,550 not $11,550.

I don't agree. It doesn't make any sense. You can't say $79,900 for that version, oh but wait when you buy that version you are forced to also buy these $5,000 worth of options. If that was the case the Performance version should be priced at $84,900 and drop that nonsense.

Also if you look at my "Delta Signature to Regular", the difference between those two numbers is $6,500. That difference matches the price of the options that are included both in Regular Performance and Signature non-Performance.

I really do think my interpretation is correct.

 

[AnOutsider]

I didn't expect to pay MORE either. I was in the camp thinking signature people would get a nice package at a discount. I'm going to stick with it though. Even my wife said "eh, that's not much" when I told her the signature premium.

Though I still hope to get a bit more bang for the buck, I suspect they're going for the "up charge for a limited edition" thing vs an "award early adopters and supporters" thing.

 

[dsm363]

I'm a little disappointed too but not enough to change anything. I was told in 2009 when I put down my deposit that the Signature would have a set of options that couldn't be replicated in the regular production but I guess that's not the case.

 

[Todd Burch]

I think the jury's still out. There may still be some sig perks we don't know of yet.

 

[ckessel]

I didn't expect to pay MORE either. I was in the camp thinking signature people would get a nice package at a discount. I'm going to stick with it though. Even my wife said "eh, that's not much" when I told her the signature premium.

You had P463 so you've only moved up maybe 1100-1200 cars earlier in the sequence? That's perhaps a month, maybe two different? That's a mighty steep price.

 

[tomanik]

I'm a little disappointed too but not enough to change anything. I was told in 2009 when I put down my deposit that the Signature would have a set of options that couldn't be replicated in the regular production but I guess that's not the case.

Apparently it is a red paint option and some fancy writing.

After much review of the pricing and features, I decided to send an email to my customer advocate, cancelling my signature reservation, good bye S15 :-(. Even without Canadian pricing being announced I can easily see it being over $100k, not what I was expecting. We'll see where I end up in the general production cue list.

 

[Princeton96]

I must admit, I'm a little disappointed in the Sig pricing as well. I priced out a non-Sig Performance vs. non-Performance Sig for the options I want and don't want. The result was the non-Sig Performance is about $2k more, so in my mind that's $2k for the sport package and I don't get some options that I didn't want anyway (twin charger, premium paint).

The big concern is how much would that delay the delivery date. I'm a late Sig holder (#868). I've decided to hedge myself and get a regular reservation also to hold my spot in that line. I now hold P6341 as well. We'll see how things shake out and I can decide later which to keep.

 

[smorgasbord]

I don't agree. It doesn't make any sense. You can't say $79,900 for that version, oh but wait when you buy that version you are forced to also buy these $5,000 worth of options. If that was the case the Performance version should be priced at $84,900 and drop that nonsense.

Your "should be" is what they did for the Sport option on the Roadster. I think they're doing it this way because it makes the Performance option appear cheaper. There's no way the 4.4 second acceleration can be accomplished on the standard tires. You have to buy those - they're part of the $5,000 option package. Same for the Air Suspension. They add the leather in probably because that's a high profit item.

Also if you look at my "Delta Signature to Regular", the difference between those two numbers is $6,500. That difference matches the price of the options that are included both in Regular Performance and Signature non-Performance.

That's numerical coincidence. Furthermore, you left out the $1500 Multi-Coat paint option on the non-Signatures. You're getting that option for free on the Signature models, so to match you need to include it on the non-Sigs.

 

[Doug_G]

Your "should be" is what they did for the Sport option on the Roadster. I think they're doing it this way because it makes the Performance option appear cheaper. There's no way the 4.4 second acceleration can be accomplished on the standard tires. You have to buy those - they're part of the $5,000 option package. Same for the Air Suspension. They add the leather in probably because that's a high profit item.

I don't think this in any way affects my argument.

That's numerical coincidence. Furthermore, you left out the $1500 Multi-Coat paint option on the non-Signatures. You're getting that option for free on the Signature models, so to match you need to include it on the non-Sigs.

I don't think it's a coincidence. It's an inevitable result of the way their pricing matrix is set up.

Multi-coat paint doesn't affect the calculation of the differential from Signature to Signature Performance. If you like, we can change the table to show a $3,550 price difference from Regular to Signature. It doesn't change the fact that you're essentially paying for $6,500 of options twice.

 

[ahimberg]

Thoughts on the seating option? I don't want leather, so the standard microfiber is good. BUT -- no option to get heated seats, color options, or the 12way adjustable instead of 8way ? Or maybe the upgraded package can get those things without the leather part required? Unclear if the Sig/Performance cars can be downgraded to microfiber (everything else says NO COST OPTION but the interior)

 

[smorgasbord]

It doesn't change the fact that you're essentially paying for $6,500 of options twice.

Here's the relevant snipped from the Model S options and Pricing page looks like:

The operative word is "Plus."

I'll be very happy if you're right and that the actual motor/PEM performance bits are only $5000. That seems too good to be true.


Edit: My calculations are that the Regular to Sig differential is $3550, and that Performance to Sig Performance is a bit over $5000.

Note also that the Performance gets you the optional CF interior trim. You really think you're getting all that for "free"?

 

[Doug_G]

Here's the relevant snipped from the Model S options and Pricing page looks like:
View attachment 3736

The operative word is "Plus."

I'll be very happy if you're right and that the actual motor/PEM performance bits are only $5000. That seems too good to be true.

That is pretty damned confusing.

 

[kendallpb]

Missing some items for Performance?

Some numbers in this thread confuse me. The $5000 package for Performance (see below; required buy, IMHO) seems to include:

(a) $6500 worth of options when bought separately ($1500 leather, $1500 active air suspension, $3500 21" HP tires)

(b) High performance drive inverter, exterior carbon fiber accents, Alcantra boosters, other interior leather/carbon fiber, and high performance wheels (not just tires, though the 21" and 21" performance wheels sure look similar...dark grey is faster?!). Most of this is only with the Performance model and doesn't have pricing as separate options. Presumably the inverter is how it gets 4.4 seconds and 130 MPT top speed? And presumably these are (part of) why Performance costs more than non-Performance (whether regular or Signature).

IMHO the $5000 package is a required buy for the regular Performance. Compare the Performance and Signature Performance models. The latter lists the same items, but in a different way, without the heading, and most telling . . . WITHOUT a price tag. Why have a price tag when the options don't add up to it AND the model include unpriced items? Because you must spend $5000 more on the regular Performance model.

Other car makers do this -- you can't get package X without package Y. Tesla's way of doing it is a bit confusing -- separate trim line + required package, neither available separately -- but I believe the regular Performance is really $84,900 (inc. the $7500 credit, like Tesla lists it).

If so, this means the Performance is $15,000 over the 85 kWh base (not $10,000) and only $3,000 less than regular Signature . . . but it also means the Signature Performance isn't a bad deal, considering it's only $10,000 over its base (the Signature) and does NOT have the extra $5000 (that package-not-called-a-package is definitely included here).

So if I were tempted by the Signature and/or Performance models, I'd take a hard look at the Signature Performance. Only $13,000 to add "Signature" to the Performance, whereas it's $18,000 to add "Signature" to the 85 kWh base. Or, looked at another way, it's $15,000 to add "Performance" to the base . . . but if you're very tempted by the Signature, it's only $10,000 to add "Performance" to the Signature.

Am I making any sense here? No? Sorry, it's late . . . okay, moving on. . . . ;-)

Anyway, after making my own spreadsheet to compare things ;-), I'm looking at the 85 kWh base, with perhaps suspension ($1500), panoramic roof ($1500; I have a convertible now), shelf ($250), and/or twin chargers+HPWC ($5500 for the pair). That's $8,750 at the most. I can get turn-by-turn with voice on my phone via MapQuest, or stick my Garmin somewhere the few times I use it (and we already own lifetime map+traffic, IIRC) and the other tech pkg items aren't compelling for me, though they are surely worth something and the package is not just turn-by-turn.

 

[neroden]

I have to say, doing my *personal* comparison between what I'd want to get for a standard and what I get for a Signature (ignoring stuff I don't care about -- for instance, the 21" wheels are basically added tire expense and a hazard from my POV), the Signature comes in at an $8000 premium, which is a lot. Especially since I have to pay 8% sales tax on that. If I consider the sound package worth it (I wouldn't normally get it, but I might enjoy it), that's a $7050 premium before tax.

Whether that's worth it depends entirely on how far back in line I'd be pushed if I dropped back to Standard. It might be worth it, but only because Tesla has never indicated that Signature owners who 'drop back' will go to the head of the line -- so doing so may push delivery out a *year*. (I paid more than that once to get the closing date on a house purchase moved up by one month. But a car is not a house.)

I wasn't clever enough to reserve both. Those were the smart people, apparently; it looks like Tesla plans to screw over Signature reservers.

It's an excessive premium for the Sig. The premium isn't so bad if you actually want the 21" wheels with the performance tires -- the second most expensive of the included options after the tech pack -- but those are frankly worth less than nothing to me. Perhaps I could get them and sell them, buy the aerodynamic 19" wheels separately, and make a profit. That would be stupid, but seems likely. Tesla should definitely offer a discount for not getting those, given that I could do this.

The thing is, most people will be indifferent to, or even hostitl to one or more of the included options in the Signature. The premium over the fully loaded version therefore has to be *smaller* than what people are willing to pay as an early delivery premium. $3500 is far too large for *extremely* minor cosmetic differences, especially for people who *could* have gotten an early P number. (It's not like Signatures are offering Yellow or Purple, which might never be offered again.) Unless there's something they haven't announced about the Signature Model (free delivery? All the extra UMC dongles free? Free service for five years?) it's seriously overpriced.

My upfront is now looking to be $103,032.30 before delivery charges (the $7500 credit may not pay off), and before any extra mobile connector dongles. This is above my budgeted amount, and I thought I was being fairly conservative (I didn't want the pano roof, the rear jumpseats, the Sport/Performance option...) I hope they don't stiff us on delivery -- I could get to California and bring the car back for $2100, and I live in New York.

And why isn't the campground NEMA 14-50 standard? That is just a glaring omission.

Alternatively, if Tesla allows Signature reservation holders who drop to Standard to go to the front of the standard production queue, as a thankyou for lending Tesla $40K for however long, it won't seem like quite so much of a ripoff. *They have never given any indication that they would do this*, however.