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Unlikely that Tesla will offer due to liability of a backfeed without proper install (like what powerwall would have). Also the battery chemistry of a powerwall is intended for daily home use discharge while the chemistry in the vehicle is not.
Others have used inverters hooked up to tesla 12v to power items during recent storms but it’s not necessarily what you are looking for.
Others have used inverters hooked up to tesla 12v to power items during recent storms but it’s not necessarily what you are looking for.
Olle
Active Member
Sounds far fetched IMO that liability would be the stopper. Much more of a liability to sell drivable cars that can collide and injure people.
If you really want to be safe from liability could have a software that doesn't allow car to back feed until installation is signed off by Tesla.
Agree its probably not good to daily cycle the current MS/X battery but as emergency back up would be nice! But for now Tesla probably has much bigger fish to fry.
I’m sure one of their concerns will be Free Supercharging -> Tesla -> Home.
Get a Nissan Leaf. Nissan figured it out with a $25K car. I bought a new 2017 leaf for the price of two power walls.
Nissan unveils new EV ecosystem to offer free power to owners with vehicle-to-grid system
Nissan unveils new EV ecosystem to offer free power to owners with vehicle-to-grid system
With power here in California’s home state subject to outages from heat waves, Santa Ana winds, fires and earthquakes, backfeed would be a hugely valuable emergency feature.
Yes, one can buy Powerwall, but it seems silly to shell out five figures for a couple dozen kWh when one has already paid for almost 100 sitting ready to tap in the driveway.
Yes, one can buy Powerwall, but it seems silly to shell out five figures for a couple dozen kWh when one has already paid for almost 100 sitting ready to tap in the driveway.
I think the liability issue could be easily overcome with a hardware lockout in the electrical panel where power enters the home from the grid... similar to a generator hookup. We DO have to protect line workers and we DO NOT want our car to be inadvertently powering the neighborhood... I am sure you can guess what would happen.
Supercharger -> car -> home would certainly be a concern with free supercharging. I am sure there are a host of other items to worry about.
The bottom line is, in my opinion, the Powerwall does a lot more than just send electricity to your household items and it does it well. I do think that a dedicated device is in order here if for no other reason than with the increase coming in renewables we all really must have a smart grid including our homes. I for one hope that there is much more cooperation coming between traditional power producers and smaller microgrids or individuals. I am looking forward to the day dual power production agreements are standard and we all share in the burden of power regulation with the help of smart grid tech! I say, let the car be a car... except in emergencies... Can always purchase a small inverter for small stuff.
Supercharger -> car -> home would certainly be a concern with free supercharging. I am sure there are a host of other items to worry about.
The bottom line is, in my opinion, the Powerwall does a lot more than just send electricity to your household items and it does it well. I do think that a dedicated device is in order here if for no other reason than with the increase coming in renewables we all really must have a smart grid including our homes. I for one hope that there is much more cooperation coming between traditional power producers and smaller microgrids or individuals. I am looking forward to the day dual power production agreements are standard and we all share in the burden of power regulation with the help of smart grid tech! I say, let the car be a car... except in emergencies... Can always purchase a small inverter for small stuff.
It would need to be more than just a simple hardware lockout, because unlike a generator the connection to the HPWC needs to be connected to grid power normally to charge the car. WIth a generator lockout the circuit breaker that feeds the panel is always disconnected from grid power.
That’s not to say that it wouldn’t be possible, but it would definitely need to be more than just a lockout.
This topic has been discussed on multiple threads ad nauseam almost since the inception of TMC.
That you can take your Tesla to a Supercharger, load up with free kilowatt-hours, and bring 'em back to your home just about guarantees that Tesla never will accede to the concept here.
Tesla is, however, more than happy to sell any number of made-to-that-purpose Powerwalls.
That you can take your Tesla to a Supercharger, load up with free kilowatt-hours, and bring 'em back to your home just about guarantees that Tesla never will accede to the concept here.
Tesla is, however, more than happy to sell any number of made-to-that-purpose Powerwalls.
After watching the latest Nissan video it makes a lot of sense.
If Nissan can do it I don't see why Tesla can't do it. I doubt the current 18650s would handle the cycling but perhaps the 2170's will fare better.
Opens up new ways to make money from the car. i.e. power arbitrage (selling power stored in the car back to the grid when prices are high).
If Nissan can do it I don't see why Tesla can't do it. I doubt the current 18650s would handle the cycling but perhaps the 2170's will fare better.
Opens up new ways to make money from the car. i.e. power arbitrage (selling power stored in the car back to the grid when prices are high).
thegruf
Active Member
This.
However should Tesla choose to do so, now the mould is broken for universal free supercharging and a financial charging model is in place this could possilby change. KWH used for emergency power could be deducted from your supercharging entitlement, or even just be billed if you do have free supercharging to prevent abuse.
I don't recall however if it was established on the S if it was possible to pull the charge out of the port as it is quite likely does not allow bidirectional feed. The Model 3 though could be entirely different and designed precisely for this function.
Tesla also have the Powerwall and will be cautious about denting sales for that and will be wary of entensive power shifting use on the vehicle battery lifetime.
There then follows a wider discussion about acceptability. Backup power in emergency is obviously a highly desirably use case.
But people will inevitably abuse this. Employers anf other currently turning a blind eye to a modest level of EV charging will be forced to switch to charging as why should they subsidize employees taking power and using it regularly at home. And it's not the cost of lost electrons so much as the cost of (re) installing monitored (further charges to the monitoring companies) chargepoints.
Really this is all part of the EV/home storage world maturing and naturally we Tesla owners will want every single feature that every other manufacturer offers or our cars will be crap. Free charging however will increasingly be a thing of the past, even governments will have to find ways of taxing EV charging without penalising electricity rates for home use as they will be forced to replace losses from gas/diesel taxation.
Using that line of reasoning to not offer a valuable feature for emergency backup, then autopilot should be disabled since someone will inevitably use it inappropriately and cause an accident. Oh wait....
The value of the V2H is at least what the cost of a Generac standby power generator would cost - which is about $10,000. It has huge value especially if it can be configured to work with the SolarEdge inverter that works now as a hybrid inverter for Solar/hybrid off grid running when tied to a solar pv and battery. Allowing outbound power with install equipment could be sold as a $5000 option.
Jdcorbitt3
Member
Another option.
The power coming out of the car is 300 to400 Volts DC, the same as power walls. Bidirectional current flow between a power wall and car should be DC. Then, during the day your solar grid, also DC could directly charge your car without going through an inverter and then a converter, thus reducing loss in efficiency. Since Teslas are designed for DC charging already, it would be easy to do with software, effectively paralleling the car battery with the Powerwall. The Powerwall installation already should have the protection built in it to prevent sending AC out to a downed grid.
Bottom line with my concept, vehicle to grid easily possible with at least one Powerwall and special DC charger that only works with Powerwall.
John
The power coming out of the car is 300 to400 Volts DC, the same as power walls. Bidirectional current flow between a power wall and car should be DC. Then, during the day your solar grid, also DC could directly charge your car without going through an inverter and then a converter, thus reducing loss in efficiency. Since Teslas are designed for DC charging already, it would be easy to do with software, effectively paralleling the car battery with the Powerwall. The Powerwall installation already should have the protection built in it to prevent sending AC out to a downed grid.
Bottom line with my concept, vehicle to grid easily possible with at least one Powerwall and special DC charger that only works with Powerwall.
John
and then everyone cries when they mistakenly charge at the supercharger before a storm/power outage and now they can't use the car to power the house.
There have LONG been available underhood generators for ICE vehicles, why didn't traditional auto makers make those standard options? Because there is no business case for it.
On the Leaf it is a little car people drive to be good for the environment, the "features" are added to try and get people to buy it. The MS is a great car people WANT TO DRIVE it doesn't need gimmicks and given the expected longevity and the long warranty and supercharging why put the added wear on the battery? Isn't the Leaf severely lacking in battery thermal management and therefore has absolute crap resale? Maybe this is just a gimmick to create more perceived value on something short lived anyway?
OBX John
Autonomous Driving Enthusiast
Using a $100K car to shuttle $10 of power from a supercharger to a house doesn't seem... efficient. I can't imagine it'd be a problem at scale, and if it were, enabling car to home power could come with caveats to eliminate the problem. Make users agree to limit supercharging at the same charger, or pay for supercharging near they live... it's an easy problem to overcome.
You could have a limit on the number of stationary battery cycles as well to overcome the warranty problem of wearing the battery out.
I think most of us just want it for emergencies, and it'd be really nice to have an option beyond stringing power cord to a 150 watt inverter in the 12v outlet.
You could have a limit on the number of stationary battery cycles as well to overcome the warranty problem of wearing the battery out.
I think most of us just want it for emergencies, and it'd be really nice to have an option beyond stringing power cord to a 150 watt inverter in the 12v outlet.
Talking emergencies only. Hurricanes. Earthquakes.
Some way to tap the days’ worth of power sitting in the driveway, rather than sitting in the cold/heat and dark for those days.
Not to allow penny-pinching electron scoopers to take advantage of their employers’ generosity by putting at-work free charging lunch into a doggie bag daily.
Anyone have thoughts on how to enable the former with encouraging the latter?
Some way to tap the days’ worth of power sitting in the driveway, rather than sitting in the cold/heat and dark for those days.
Not to allow penny-pinching electron scoopers to take advantage of their employers’ generosity by putting at-work free charging lunch into a doggie bag daily.
Anyone have thoughts on how to enable the former with encouraging the latter?
