Model S to the Nürburgring Next Week!

[TIppy]

A stock P100D is not traction limited in a straight line. The car has a fixed torque setting set well below the limits of factory tires. Also the amount of surface area that touches the ground is determined by car weight, tire pressure and downforce, not tire width. The tire width is to change the shape of the patch to improve handling in corners. Also soft compound tires need more width for the sidewall to support the car weight.

Granted Elon's team will have certainly have increased the torque setting with the stickier tires. Most drivers would probably get better lap times with the torque setting preventing most wheel spin. With a professional driver they might get better times with the limit set higher.

It would be an interesting track mode to have the torque setting dynamic based on ambient and tire temperature, tire pressure, suspension settings, car velocity and lateral g forces. My understanding is that autopilot is designed to not use map data but instead only rely on the cameras, but I suspect that if the car knew the race track route it could optimize considerably as well.

My theory on the front trunk is that it is the easiest place to access a CANBus port and to quickly swap a solid state storage device on a CANBus data recorder.

I don't think it's well below. They have the torque set pretty close the limit to achieve the 0-60 times they do. The car will ocassionally spin the tires during launch mode causing the traction control to kick in. When this happens, it significantly affects 0-60 time. Sticky tires on a treated surface is a different story. But in our discussion of your grandmother doing 0-250 mph runs on factory tires, I think Tesla's pre-programmed. optimized torque curve is what is relevant.

 

[Brando]

I’m pretty sure Tesla has spent way more than 10 billion on R&D.

Tesla's R&D costs 2010-2018 | Statista
<$5.7 billion 2010-2018

pretty sure

 

[nativewolf]

Tesla's R&D costs 2010-2018 | Statista
<$5.7 billion 2010-2018

pretty sure

Close enough for Govt work, a billion here a billion there. Also it fails to consider that Panasonic spent quite a bit of the R&D money itself. The goal, to be clear, is to spend the least R&D and have the best product. Google's self driving car unit is a great example of a piss poor outcome.

 

[nativewolf]

I know it's dark in there, but it's all marketing. Porsche was highlighting the only performance parameter they thought they had over Tesla, endurance. Do you think they would have ballyhooed the numbers if they came in behind the P85D they were bench marking ? The problem for them is the model 3.

Right and Tesla can easily respond and say lets take a real endurance drive, from NYC to LA. Cannonball it, a leaf could do it in about the same time as a Porsche.

 

[nativewolf]

The Laguna Seca laptime of the Model S Plaid is about 1s faster than a Cayman GT4 which laps the Ring in 7:40. Indeed there is a very real chance of beating the Taycan's 7:42 with this prototype, which has obviously not a lot in common with the current Model S on sale.

It will be interesting to see if and how Porsche will respond. So far they have crushed everyone who wanted to steal their records on this track. Bellof has lapped the Ring in 6:09 in the 80s in a Porsche. They have some experience here.

Let's see.

It's a stupid record to worry about. Cars can go faster than normal people can handle, proven several decades ago. Now what? The future of cars, of transportation in general has nothing to do with this track. So, while it is interesting from a "who has a bigger dick" point of view it is meaningless from a transportation point of view. Porsche has been lapped by Tesla in transportation and is now going to end up as a fossil.

 

[VT_EE]

It's a stupid record to worry about. Cars can go faster than normal people can handle, proven several decades ago. Now what? The future of cars, of transportation in general has nothing to do with this track. So, while it is interesting from a "who has a bigger dick" point of view it is meaningless from a transportation point of view. Porsche has been lapped by Tesla in transportation and is now going to end up as a fossil.

The "Who has a bigger dick" competition forces companies to continually innovate, which leads to advanced technology development. It's a good thing.

 

[dark cloud]

It's a stupid record to worry about. Cars can go faster than normal people can handle, proven several decades ago. Now what? The future of cars, of transportation in general has nothing to do with this track. So, while it is interesting from a "who has a bigger dick" point of view it is meaningless from a transportation point of view. Porsche has been lapped by Tesla in transportation and is now going to end up as a fossil.

You can still see who has a bigger dick and not burn fossil fuels.

Cars & Technology | FIA Formula E

 

[AMPd]

Tesla's R&D costs 2010-2018 | Statista
<$5.7 billion 2010-2018

pretty sure

Right, that’s from 2010-2018.. you said the last 15 years.

 

[mongo]

Right, that’s from 2010-2018.. you said the last 15 years.

Let's look at the trend:

in ,000,000s
2018: $1,460
2017: $1,378
2016: $834
2015: $718
2014: $465
2013: $232
2012: $274
2011: $209
2010: $93
Total from 2018-2010: 5.662 Billion
To hit 10 billion over 2004 to 2009 (6 years) they would need to average 4.338/6=$723 million a year, a level they only reached in 2015.

Throwing in 2019: 664 million so far, 6,326, leaving a needed average of 3,674/6 = $612 million a year for 2004-2009.

10 Billion in total Tesla R&D to this point is not likely. Probably happen in 2022 or so.

 

[Brando]

For the fiscal year ended December 31, 2010
see page 7 of the above SEC filed annual report
Isn't the internet wonderful? Search engines, who knew? Hope business & government don't foul it all up.

The cumulative capital expenditures and research and development costs for the Tesla Roadster from our inception to the date we delivered our first Tesla Roadster equaled approximately $125 million.

Perhaps @mongo might compare 2008 Roadster to 2019 Taycan
specs & prices ?? and of course the R&D spent
That might be a good article for Wall St., Autoline, Bob Lutz, VW .... and all those State Legislators that won't allow Tesla to sell direct in the land of the free and home of the brave.

================
Alibaba & Amazon

You can't buy a car on Amazon, but you can research one. SAN FRANCISCO – You still can't buy a car on Amazon, but you can do just about everything else. On Thursday, the Seattle company launched Amazon Vehicles, what it's calling an online “automotive community.”
Aug 25, 2016

Used Car Sales, Used Car Sales Suppliers and Manufacturers at Alibaba.com

China beating US at capitalism and socialism at the same time??
I think US still number one in killing (only 8 wars) and prisoners (only 25% of world's prisoners) debt of all kinds. And of course bank, healthcare, Pharma profits,Wall St. profits
(profits are our most important product - isn't that what Wall St.tells us?)
And for now only Democratic & Republican Parties effectively influence our voting habits. Still half of the people vote, right?

inspiration supplied by many members of TMC

 

[Brando]

About product and suppliers:

Alibaba.com offers 40,750 used car sales products. About 2% of these are used cars, 1% are parking equipment, and 1% are lead scrap.

A wide variety of used car sales options are available to you, such as suv, sedan, and van. You can also choose from 2012, 2013, and 2005. As well as from gas/petrol, diesel, and electric. And whether used car sales is awd, fwd, or rwd.

There are 40,185 used car sales suppliers, mainly located in Asia. The top supplying countries or regions are China, United Kingdom, and Philippines, which supply 87%, 2%, and 1% of used car sales respectively.

Used car sales products are most popular in North America, Domestic Market, and South America.

You can ensure product safety by selecting from certified suppliers, including 9,171 with ISO9001, 4,064 with Other, and 1,547 with ISO14001 certification.

I even saw a Model S and Rolls Royce Ghost 2017.

 

[Brando]

For the fiscal year ended December 31, 2010
search above annual report (tip: use Ctrl - F to search most any text in your browser)
research and development

Go ahead and try it. It's fun and interesting and reading from the past - all the way back to 2010 - I find very informative/interesting/insightful.

@KarenRei Much more fun than Nurburgring, I promise.

 

[geoffmanley]

The "Who has a bigger dick" competition forces companies to continually innovate, which leads to advanced technology development. It's a good thing.

And leads to bigger dicks which is what we all want...er you all want.

 

[dhanson865]

This guy on reddit seems to think the Taycan is using regular road tires, not any sort of semi Slick. Further he thinks the Model S is using semi slicks. And the crowd there is upvoting him on that belief.

 

[Blup85]

The "Who has a bigger dick" competition forces companies to continually innovate, which leads to advanced technology development. It's a good thing.

You can still see who has a bigger dick and not burn fossil fuels.

Cars & Technology | FIA Formula E

I found myself liking both your posts.. This EV generation is confusing.

 

[PhantomX]

This guy on reddit seems to think the Taycan is using regular road tires, not any sort of semi Slick. Further he thinks the Model S is using semi slicks. And the crowd there is upvoting him on that belief.

That's likely true, unless Porsche had Cup2 as an option for the Taycan. In other Porsche record attempts at Ring, they have always use stock car with tires and brakes (no special pads and fluids) that any customers can order off the build sheet. The main addition/mods are safety related stuff such as roll bars and racing harness. It's also why their replacements parts are pretty darn expensive, even compared to MB and BMW.

Actually, typical OEM Ring record attempts are with stock cars. I am certain this was true for GTR, M4 GTS, and other sports cars record there.

Hopefully whatever package and equipment Model S used for the Ring, they will be available for everyone to purchase.

 

[Realist]

It's a stupid record to worry about. Cars can go faster than normal people can handle, proven several decades ago. Now what? The future of cars, of transportation in general has nothing to do with this track. So, while it is interesting from a "who has a bigger dick" point of view it is meaningless from a transportation point of view. Porsche has been lapped by Tesla in transportation and is now going to end up as a fossil.

I think you will see big improvements on future Tesla chassis setups if they continue to test on the Ring. It‘s not about a big balls contest. The Ring is unique. Every part of the car and the driver is tested to the max. In the end, a car which behaves well at the Nordschleife is better on every other road as well.

The Alfa Romeo Giulia QV is one of the most tested cars on this track and once you get behind the wheel you understand why. It rides and handles just perfectly.

 

[axhoaxho]

Just curious if the Tesla Autopilot/FSD can run a lap at the Nürburgring by itself...?

If so, may be Musk can claim the fastest autonomous-driving lap time at the Ring while the team is currently at there?

 

[pgkevet]

They'd have to reprogramme it for autopilot on a single track road so it wouldn't be stock. Also playing with it around here on single carriageways with tight bends I have to set max speed 40mph for it to slow for the tighter turns and even then it doesn't like a 90 degree bend (european max steering angle?). If starting to train it for a specific course then Nio might take up the challenge...

 

[nativewolf]

I was thinking it would be fun for kicks and giggles to have a tesla do a lap on autopilot, glad to see @axhoaxho had the same idea. That would be fun. One day before my kids are dead an AI will run the thing faster than a human and then that's it. This might be the first chance.