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boonedocks
MS LR Blk/Blk 19”
No goalpost moving on my part. I am just stating that when both cars are available, show me a Porsche Toycan TurboS in a driveway....hmm .....oh yeah you can't because it's not available either..then we can see who moves the goalpost and what delusions you can dream up then....
Well the porsche's record stands. The model S is a 7-seat, all-electric car.
204EV
Member
Question then.
Would it be fair to compare the Model S Raven to the regular Taycan Turbo production Ring time(we will have to wait to see.) because in my mind. a Prototype Ring time compared to a Prototype Ring time, sounds like a fair comparison. And once the new plaid Model S goes into production . We can compare Production Models S# edition to the Taycan turbo S production version..
Apples to Apples
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
So again. What is delusional or incorrect about my original statement - "No way a ludicrous raven is going to be faster than the Taycan"?
204EV
Member
Ohh and I'm Coining the Model S# (as it looks like plaid)
The current production car is an actual production car unlike the Toycan. As long as that is agreed with then yes, I'd agree. Also...on a 0-60 yes, still faster I'd think. It is the top end speeds and not useful handling/suspension needs that limit it on a track. Track racing is not really interesting past the point where an AI can drive faster than a human and that time is coming very soon. How much you want to bet that the AI is getting a very special training set for track racing? I can see that coming, just like chess where it took a computer decades to be a master, and then it was done.
The progression of walking back the FUD from Porsche has been interesting, from Tesla can't beat that, to tesla is not even booked at the track, to ok, tesla is there but they are not stock, to the ok the toycan was a prototype too, to the tesla will overheat, to the ...oh F... well that was hand timed. I mean...do people think Elon spent millions to go there without knowing he could beat the toycan and without knowing he had a spot lined up? He's unpredictable but not an idiot.
I
coined the Toycan, frankly I should go buy that website but I'm just not that interested.
I do find that humorous. Let’s face it. Tesla did better than Porsche (or any Tesla hater) hoped they would.
204EV
Member
boonedocks
MS LR Blk/Blk 19”
It's so funny to watch all the Porsche fans on a Tesla forum site coming out out of the woodwork....
lets see how they scurry once both cars are actually available for purchase and the Tesla S Plaid truly and easily does a smackdown on the Toycan.......AND.....for a fraction of the cost....
lets see how they scurry once both cars are actually available for purchase and the Tesla S Plaid truly and easily does a smackdown on the Toycan.......AND.....for a fraction of the cost....
What goalpost moving.? A Tesla is going to ravage the Porsche time. Of the two cars neither is actually available as raced. Of the two cars one has more range and costs less in current iteration. Of the two cars one manufacturer has sold hundreds of thousands of electric cars and the other...not a single one. One is committed to saving earth, one is committed to..well nothing but employing germans. One car has a neural network training to race on tracks, one doesn't. One has proper grab handles, one doesn't (big points to the toycan) One has better seats (slight favor to toycan). Hmmm...one has a charging network that works incredibly well -a real network (I have no idea why anyone would want an electric car without the supercharging network). The last one is the point that sticks out to me. I just don't get why anyone would consider a car without that very specific network. Anything more is just a commuter car until I see proven otherwise.
mtndrew1
Active Member
Welp, color me impressed.
Today you can buy a car initially launched by Tesla in 2012 with more range, faster acceleration, higher top speed, greater passenger space, and greater cargo space than the finest work of the world’s largest automaker. For $50,000 less.
In a year you’ll be able to have all of that plus better track times. Unreal.
The notion of the Germans just showing up when they decide to put the smack down on the California upstart to demonstrate how things are done is getting kind of comical at this point.
Tesla is an interior refresh away from having the best large sedan on the market in all metrics across all propulsion methods.
Today you can buy a car initially launched by Tesla in 2012 with more range, faster acceleration, higher top speed, greater passenger space, and greater cargo space than the finest work of the world’s largest automaker. For $50,000 less.
In a year you’ll be able to have all of that plus better track times. Unreal.
The notion of the Germans just showing up when they decide to put the smack down on the California upstart to demonstrate how things are done is getting kind of comical at this point.
Tesla is an interior refresh away from having the best large sedan on the market in all metrics across all propulsion methods.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I think it's reasonable to assume a Taycan off the production line in a couple months will very closely match the prototype performance as it's intended to be production representative. But I'm happy to wait for that time so it's "apples to apples", sure.
This is an incredibly goofy prediction. We may be getting to the point where superior AI time attack skills are "coming very soon", though I'd dispute the semantics of "very soon" even on that.
AI being superior in multi-participant track racing is a much much much harder problem, and not one that computers are particularly good at solving. The sort of instantaneous scenario planning capabilities necessary for successful racing is a very complex problem. Intent of other drivers, risk vs. reward of individual strategies/decisions... this is far less trivial than identifying the ideal racing line and nailing it at the limit.
It's so funny to watch all the Porsche fans on a Tesla forum site coming out out of the woodwork....
lets see how they scurry once both cars are actually available for purchase and the Tesla S Plaid truly and easily does a smackdown on the Toycan.......
I would like to publicly thankyou for your support of my self coined Toycan name, rarely am I inspired
.I'm a forester by training. We think in decades to harvest one crop. So soon...well that could be a decade or more. It took decades for a computer to beat a good human in chess. It won't take 4 decades for ai to beat humans on a track. That I can say with some surety and I'd bet you but I might not be around to buy you a winners beer or to receive one.
And it is a goofy prediction today. On the other hand, when that does happen there will be no point to humans driving and that is not a goofy thought but a pretty deep pool.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
This entire post is goalpost moving.
To be perfectly frank, I agree with all of it. I'm a Model S owner and have zero interest in the Taycan for all of the reasons you describe.
That said, the discussion has been about the track capabilities of the current production Model S on the Nurburgring, as compared to the production-intent Taycan. I've maintained that this is a silly comparison and the Taycan will easily outperform the current S based on a single variable - brakes. There was a fair amount of delusion in this thread on that topic.
