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Model S/X minor refresh coming soon?
- Thread starter Cladbolg
- Start date
It's coming later this year early next I don't have the exact date but its better, lighter and more rigid with a better suspension and an added option to take it's title back.
I think what was meant the title as the quickest production car. That title now belongs to the Rimac Nevera.
I personally don't care, the Plaid is plenty fast for a daily driver. It would have to be well into the 8's for me to consider upgrading anyway.
Nice job with extrapolation.
Model S beating
1/4 - 8.26
0-60 - 1.74
Would be an absurdly huge upgrade in performance.
Could be in keeping with Elon's Ego. Especially with the Lucid Air Sapphire out soon. That could be a more relevant target.
Propofoln
Member
I would like to see update the Model S to have better range like the Lucid Air Grand Touring. I am surprised Tesla has not already done that just to have bragging rights and make it real range too, like BMW/Mercedes publish. They over achieve in their range while Tesla and Lucid under achieve.
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People will pay for it, 100%.
I think the sweet spot is 400-500 range. Anything over is probably not worth the sacrifices.
And this is likely a psychological issue for most people rather than a functional issue.
Apple went through this with the iPhone.
there is a real trade off with range - and tesla has to decide if it’s worth the design sacrifices.
People will pay for it, 100%.
I think the sweet spot is 400-500 range. Anything over is probably not worth the sacrifices.
And this is likely a psychological issue for most people rather than a functional issue.
Apple went through this with the iPhone.
Agree, but it has to be real world driving range. Tesla and Lucid EPA range is always much less in the real world, while BMW, Mercedes and Porsche EPA range is always underestimated and they over perform. EPA really needs to get one standard and pick the one that is the closest to real world driving, which would be the one the Euro brands use. I want an EV that can truly go 400 miles of range in real world driving. We need SUV’s like that too, as there range so far just is not good enough for most people to buy them.
CapeOne
Active Member
On the subject of range, below is a Reuters article regarding Tesla range numbers and complaints.
www.reuters.com
Tesla’s secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints
About a decade ago, Tesla rigged the dashboard readouts in its electric cars to provide “rosy” projections of how far owners can drive before needing to recharge, a source told Reuters.
Unless there are major advances in battery tech, 500 mile range capability just adds a lot of weight to the car and won't benefit that many people. Stuff enough battery in the car and you could do that now. All that extra weight is going to hurt the performance a lot when you don't need the range.
Going to an 800V architecture would be very useful. You could further reduce charging times which makes max range less important. This is an area where Tesla is lagging behind some of the competition. Definitely need to improve the charging infrastructure.
I would like to see a real-world (not EPA rating) 350 mile range on the highway at 70 mph with the AC on in a hot climate and at least 325 mile range in temps around freezing. Combine that with very fast charging (800V) and I think most people would be very happy. Building beyond that is just going to be overkill and your in-town efficiency, overall braking, acceleration, tire life, and road wear impact are going to worsen.
Ultimately you need to get away from lithium-ion batteries due to their limitations as well. There is a sweet spot where you want to keep them charged to maximize longevity. You don't want to be charging them to high levels all the time or discharging to very low levels as well. The way I look at it, I can only effectively use maybe about 60% of the actual real world range on a daily basis if I want to minimize battery degradation. So at most, 80-20-80% charge on a daily basis. Even that is a pretty deep depth of discharge cycle. Li-ion batteries don't like really deep discharge cycles. They are pretty finicky when you dive into them. Not too hot, not too cold, don't discharge or charge them too fast. Don't cycle them too deeply. Instead of one 50% discharge, less wear to discharge them 5 times at 10% discharge. May not matter to one car the impact but across millions, it is very important.
We have to maximize battery life so degradation is important even if you don't plan on owning the car and don't really care. Li-ion recycling is not sa simple process and the longer we can keep them on the road rather than being recycled the less issues with dealing with all the recycling needs of Li-ion batteries. More EVs on the road means disposing of old EVs even bigger issue.
Having said all that, my Plaid on 21's does good enough for my needs. Adding another 100 miles isn't going to reduce my SC stops that much on a trip. The faster charging would be more important to me.
Going to an 800V architecture would be very useful. You could further reduce charging times which makes max range less important. This is an area where Tesla is lagging behind some of the competition. Definitely need to improve the charging infrastructure.
I would like to see a real-world (not EPA rating) 350 mile range on the highway at 70 mph with the AC on in a hot climate and at least 325 mile range in temps around freezing. Combine that with very fast charging (800V) and I think most people would be very happy. Building beyond that is just going to be overkill and your in-town efficiency, overall braking, acceleration, tire life, and road wear impact are going to worsen.
Ultimately you need to get away from lithium-ion batteries due to their limitations as well. There is a sweet spot where you want to keep them charged to maximize longevity. You don't want to be charging them to high levels all the time or discharging to very low levels as well. The way I look at it, I can only effectively use maybe about 60% of the actual real world range on a daily basis if I want to minimize battery degradation. So at most, 80-20-80% charge on a daily basis. Even that is a pretty deep depth of discharge cycle. Li-ion batteries don't like really deep discharge cycles. They are pretty finicky when you dive into them. Not too hot, not too cold, don't discharge or charge them too fast. Don't cycle them too deeply. Instead of one 50% discharge, less wear to discharge them 5 times at 10% discharge. May not matter to one car the impact but across millions, it is very important.
We have to maximize battery life so degradation is important even if you don't plan on owning the car and don't really care. Li-ion recycling is not sa simple process and the longer we can keep them on the road rather than being recycled the less issues with dealing with all the recycling needs of Li-ion batteries. More EVs on the road means disposing of old EVs even bigger issue.
Having said all that, my Plaid on 21's does good enough for my needs. Adding another 100 miles isn't going to reduce my SC stops that much on a trip. The faster charging would be more important to me.
Tesla has a policy of continous improvements. This means that when something new or better gets developed it is installed in production immediately, not waiting for a new model year or refresh.
There are always reports of new things or improvements...coming soon.
You can never purchase a future configuration. You just get what you get when your car rolls down the assembly line.
People that have FOMO will always be waiting for the next iteration of production.
There are always reports of new things or improvements...coming soon.
You can never purchase a future configuration. You just get what you get when your car rolls down the assembly line.
People that have FOMO will always be waiting for the next iteration of production.
I agree with a lot of what you say here. FOMO is a big issue for many. The problem with Tesla lately is a lot of their "improvements" are to their bottom line, not necessarily better for us, the consumer.
A perfect example is when the removed the right side lumbar support from the 3/Y's in 2021. Yep, an improvement for Tesla but not me. Or when they yanked radar from the 3/Ys at about the same time. Sure, an improvement for Tesla but I got an almost unusable vehicle when using TACC or AP. Fast forward to removing USS. Again, another home run for them on saving money but your car was screwed, and who nows for how long.
So count me as a super skeptic when it comes to Tesla's "improvements" now. Even if they roll out something that might be seen as an improvement, it may take them months/years to get it dialed in where it is actually better than what it replaced before.
My strategy if I ever buy another Tesla, is see what the current capabilities are of whatever they are shipping and not theoretically what it is capable of. The matrix headlights are a good example of that. They are amazing in what can they do. They've been in Teslas for years now. Has any of the capability been realized? No, other than some light show a 10-year-old might think is cool. Practically there is little difference but the potential is huge.
The matrix headlights on the S are a massive improvement over the old reflectors even if none of the matrix functionality is being utilized. The old lights were so terrible.
On the S, I agree the matrix are clearly better, on the 3/Y not so much of a difference. The non-matrix lights on my 3 were far better than the non-matrix on the S.
Tesla still hasn't unlocked the full functionality of them for usage on the road. I thought they'd already received approval to do so in the US.
Lucid Air hit over 500 miles at 70 mph...That's ridiculous, no one else is that close to EPA range at 70mph.
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