Model S&X Price Adjustments

[NewEnglander]

You’re not getting my point. The point is he didn’t think it through. He executed first and then thought about it later. He changed his mind after people had already ordered.

Do you know what it takes to introduce a new model even if it’s software locked? It’s a ton of work from specifications, developing, testing, marketing, etc.

Maybe it was a lot of work but why do we have to discuss it or worry about it? The fact is Tesla realized that was a dumb move. Why would anyone pay 79k for a car and get barely 325 miles of range for a Model S. Tesla acts like a startup. Try new things and change it immediately if it does not work. If that does not work for you, don’t buy their cars. But then you are left with cars from legacy companies that are 10 years behind Tesla in software and tech.

 

[miggz410]

You’re not getting my point. The point is he didn’t think it through. He executed first and then thought about it later. He changed his mind after people had already ordered.

Do you know what it takes to introduce a new model even if it’s software locked? It’s a ton of work from specifications, developing, testing, marketing, etc.

New model? They are using current models that's been tested numerous times. All they are doing is locking the software. Which they have done plenty of times before during the early days. All that was probably done behind a desk by one of his software engineers.

He most likely didn't get the demand he wanted for the standard range in that few weeks. Most likely no standard range car was even delivered with an estimate October delivery at the time of order. Most current order probably got bumped up for the longer range. Pretty sure all those people are psyched right now. Sound more like, you're the one not thinking this through?

 

[saj070]

I totally agree with everyone it not fair but this is capitalism.

Here my story purchased MYP 7/2022 for $68k 6 months later after price drop sold it for$47k took a $21k loss in 6 months. I did that because found on 12/2022 MS Refresh with FSD red/cream walnut with 21 wheels with 3k miles virtual brand new for $71k. I saw the invoice he paid $112k I was thinking what a bargain saving$41k .

I absolutely love the car best car own and they can value my car for $50k today fully loaded with FSD but I have no intention in selling going to keep it for 5 years save $3k on per year on gas

Bottom line after driving the MS and owning Merc BMW and RR I still think Tesla is so far advance with everything.

I am thinking about buying another MX or MS for my wife I think more price drop coming because we going to have EV makers competition around the corner.

I said to myself never buy Tesla after MYP price drop and here I am thinking of buying another lol

Life is too short if you can afford it and going to keep the car for a period of time don't look at the value enjoy it save on gas and help the environment

Everyone Happy Long weekend

 

[Tiger]

So I dont think the small number of increased sales will make up for this. Remember an $80k car is still out of reach of most people. These are their top tier customers, the ones that supported the company into existence in the beginning. Someone didn't think this one through. Elon is an idiot in so many ways.....

Tesla has a record of its "loyal customers", it could offer a special deal for those, "keep your FSD" and so forth, and then move on and get real with the price competition.

 

[DrIlyich]

Free supercharging is really not that valuable unless you are constantly taking long distance road trips. 99% are not doing that. I find that I supercharge about 4 times a year which is maybe about a $100.

What I would be worried about is the $80k X might be down to $70k soon. Maybe even $60k. Who knows.

Makes you think the X is built kinda cheap. Not like a BMW or any premium brand.

That’s a good point about supercharging. But in Montana, I pretty much have to use a supercharger to get anywhere that’s a couple hours away. I live in Bozeman and if I drive to Billings, which is 150 miles one way, I would cut it close to get back home doing a round trip without stopping to charge. Highway speeds in Montana are 80 MPH pretty much everywhere, plus it is very hilly, windy, and extremely cold (can be hot too during the summer). So assuming a 10% loss (I am expecting more than that) in range given weather/driving speed would force me to stop. I can’t imagine how much I’ll lose during extremely cold temps, but I suspect it will be a lot more than 30% of my range. In short, I do a lot of long trips, so it wouldn’t surprise me if I saved $1500-2000 a year with free supercharging.

To your point, I do expect the prices to drop some more. No way they are going to leave it as is and allow just the Yoke to push the order above $80k, which makes it ineligible for the tax credit. I think $70k would be the floor for the X. Any lower and you are infringing on market share for the other models. The S is already $5k cheaper than the X, so a $70k X puts the S in the mid $60k.

I disagree quite a bit about your cheap comment and how it compares to BMW. Tesla is a tech/software company that has way better margins and scaled in a sustainable way. Luxury brands depreciate BADLY unless you are talking more specialty vehicles with limited production. Again, the last 3 years are an anomaly for the car market. It’s not uncommon for six figure plus vehicles to lose $25k in a year. What Elon is doing is genius. He is undercutting the entire auto industry. No one has lowered car prices in 3 years until Ford recently did for the Lightning (again only because of Elon). Rivian and any other EV manufacturer cannot compete with Tesla’s prices and infrastructure. So he is 100% right to focus on market share and volume rather than margins as he is putting insane pressure on everybody. Not to mention, he has the best charging infrastructure in the world. As the economy worsens, other automakers will start to cut prices. People cannot continue to buy $100k F150s when homes prices have double in many markets and wages have not.

 

[joeinNFLA]

Most companies don’t change their prices like Tesla. It feels like the stock market with them. Can change daily. What they are doing currently won’t make current owners comfortable buying from them again.

Every car company “changes prices”. Traditional companies use rebates financing and leasing programs to lower the transaction prices which also affect retained value of vehicles. Look at the $7500 rebates on some BEVs right now.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

Maybe it was a lot of work but why do we have to discuss it or worry about it? The fact is Tesla realized that was a dumb move. Why would anyone pay 79k for a car and get barely 325 miles of range for a Model S. Tesla acts like a startup. Try new things and change it immediately if it does not work. If that does not work for you, don’t buy their cars. But then you are left with cars from legacy companies that are 10 years behind Tesla in software and tech.

Big tech companies try new things first, if it doesn’t work throw them away. But not in the public view. By the time it hits the public it’s been a well ironed out plan.

Again you guys keep supporting Teslas moves mostly driven by the instability of Elon. Do first, think later.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

New model? They are using current models that's been tested numerous times. All they are doing is locking the software. Which they have done plenty of times before during the early days. All that was probably done behind a desk by one of his software engineers.

He most likely didn't get the demand he wanted for the standard range in that few weeks. Most likely no standard range car was even delivered with an estimate October delivery at the time of order. Most current order probably got bumped up for the longer range. Pretty sure all those people are psyched right now. Sound more like, you're the one not thinking this through?

Well everyone knew the standard range by simple software lock was a dumb idea, especially the reduced range. Only Elon thought it was good.

If the range was close to the same but reduced power it would sell well. People are more concerned about range. I think plenty of people would save $10k and go for it if range was good.

Then later offer an unlock for $5-$10k. Win win, people get tax rebates and great prices and he doesn’t destroy all S/X sales in the process and lose the loyal customers.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

That’s a good point about supercharging. But in Montana, I pretty much have to use a supercharger to get anywhere that’s a couple hours away. I live in Bozeman and if I drive to Billings, which is 150 miles one way, I would cut it close to get back home doing a round trip without stopping to charge. Highway speeds in Montana are 80 MPH pretty much everywhere, plus it is very hilly, windy, and extremely cold (can be hot too during the summer). So assuming a 10% loss (I am expecting more than that) in range given weather/driving speed would force me to stop. I can’t imagine how much I’ll lose during extremely cold temps, but I suspect it will be a lot more than 30% of my range. In short, I do a lot of long trips, so it wouldn’t surprise me if I saved $1500-2000 a year with free supercharging.

To your point, I do expect the prices to drop some more. No way they are going to leave it as is and allow just the Yoke to push the order above $80k, which makes it ineligible for the tax credit. I think $70k would be the floor for the X. Any lower and you are infringing on market share for the other models. The S is already $5k cheaper than the X, so a $70k X puts the S in the mid $60k.

I disagree quite a bit about your cheap comment and how it compares to BMW. Tesla is a tech/software company that has way better margins and scaled in a sustainable way. Luxury brands depreciate BADLY unless you are talking more specialty vehicles with limited production. Again, the last 3 years are an anomaly for the car market. It’s not uncommon for six figure plus vehicles to lose $25k in a year. What Elon is doing is genius. He is undercutting the entire auto industry. No one has lowered car prices in 3 years until Ford recently did for the Lightning (again only because of Elon). Rivian and any other EV manufacturer cannot compete with Tesla’s prices and infrastructure. So he is 100% right to focus on market share and volume rather than margins as he is putting insane pressure on everybody. Not to mention, he has the best charging infrastructure in the world. As the economy worsens, other automakers will start to cut prices. People cannot continue to buy $100k F150s when homes prices have double in many markets and wages have not.

I’m glad you like the S. It is a nice car. But right now I think Tesla can sell it for $60k and the only way that can happen is if the car is indeed built a lot cheaper than we think it is. I would not recommend it to any of my friends unless they tell me they intend to keep it for 10 yrs. The insane loss in value within the 1st year is like no other car you can buy in the market.

Again imagine a guy buying a Plaid last year for 140k. His car is now worth about $70k. If he wanted to sell his car for whatever reason (he doesn’t like it or wants a diff kind of car) he prob can’t now. Locked in for long term unless he doesn’t care about losing $70k this fast.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

Ok I'll say something nice. If you stick with getting another Tesla when it's time to sell or upgrade then these huge cost cuts wont matter as much. The price difference between used and new will still be relatively the same.

The new Model 3 does look improved and better. Range figures look great too.

I do love Tesla, just not the guy in the drivers seat. Tesla could do much better with a less distracted and more focused driver. I've promoted Tesla for over a decade. I really loved that original roadster.

Happy Labor Day Weekend to you all!

 

[metalblaze]

Is the solution to actually just lease Teslas…? Is that what Musk and co. want most customers to do…?

 

[DrIlyich]

I’m glad you like the S. It is a nice car. But right now I think Tesla can sell it for $60k and the only way that can happen is if the car is indeed built a lot cheaper than we think it is. I would not recommend it to any of my friends unless they tell me they intend to keep it for 10 yrs. The insane loss in value within the 1st year is like no other car you can buy in the market.

Again imagine a guy buying a Plaid last year for 140k. His car is now worth about $70k. If he wanted to sell his car for whatever reason (he doesn’t like it or wants a diff kind of car) he prob can’t now. Locked in for long term unless he doesn’t care about losing $70k this fast.

I don’t see a problem at $60k. I wouldn’t think you would want to go much lower than that given the other models. I like the X better than the S.

I don’t really have sympathy for people that lost money. Would I be upset if it was me? Yes, I would. But vehicles depreciate. They are not appreciating assets. Buying new cars and losing half its value in a relatively short period of time is why people stay broke. If you don’t think this is the case, then maybe read the Millionaire Next Door or Dave Ramsey’s Total Money Makeover

 

[Kan-O-Z]

I don’t see a problem at $60k. I wouldn’t think you would want to go much lower than that given the other models. I like the X better than the S.

I don’t really have sympathy for people that lost money. Would I be upset if it was me? Yes, I would. But vehicles depreciate. They are not appreciating assets. Buying new cars and losing half its value in a relatively short period of time is why people stay broke. If you don’t think this is the case, then maybe read the Millionaire Next Door or Dave Ramsey’s Total Money Makeover

It’s specifically the rate of depreciation being caused by Tesla itself is the issue.

We are all ok with the known depreciation that happens over time. So you’re speaking to the choir on that.

And just for sake of argument if your Tesla goes from $100k to $5k in one year then I will tell you well ya did it to yourself and get over it

 

[SO16]

Why do people want to pay more next time in order to feel better about their old purchases?

Would they really want to still pay 12k for a cell phone?

If people are that worried about resale value, should either buy used or lease.

I want the best deal for next time.

I paid 105k for my 2017 MS90D. Now can get one for a fraction of the price with better range, performance and features. Would also pay less in annual registration fees and insurance due to a lower initial cost.

Everyone agreed to the terms at time of purchase. We go through this after every price drop.

Elon even stated during the pandemic that prices were embarrassingly high.

A model X started at 72k in 2019. Now 79k.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

Why do people want to pay more next time in order to feel better about their old purchases?

Would they really want to still pay 12k for a cell phone?

If people are that worried about resale value, should either buy used or lease.

I want the best deal for next time.

I paid 105k for my 2017 MS90D. Now can get one for a fraction of the price with better range, performance and features. Would also pay less in annual registration fees and insurance due to a lower initial cost.

Everyone agreed to the terms at time of purchase. We go through this after every price drop.

Elon even stated during the pandemic that prices were embarrassingly high.

A model X started at 72k in 2019. Now 79k.

Love how so many see no issue. You’d prob change your tune if you lost $70k in one year.

Also the X was $80k and Plaid was $120k in 2019.

Of course prices go up and down. But the rate of fluctuations and % of fluctuations is extremely high with Tesla. Much higher than any other product or car in the market.

To me this just signals poor planning and gross price gauging. This is also a way to lose existing customers very fast who btw promote your products.

Case in point Apple was able to navigate Covid supply issues so there wasn’t a 12 month wait. Tesla failed here too as they planned very poorly. Apple was also able to keep their prices steady. That’s what wins over customers and grows the business.

 

[etekberg]

I do love Tesla, just not the guy in the drivers seat. Tesla could do much better with a less distracted and more focused driver. I've promoted Tesla for over a decade. I really loved that original roadster.

Tesla *is* because of the guy in the driver's seat. You know they are good because other manufacturers are rushing to adopt their innovations. Ford is aligning with direct sales of their EVs as best as they can, adopting NACS, pursuing giga-casting. Telsa has upset the industry. Same with SpaceX which has been absolutely amazing and launches like 90% of the worlds stuff to space.

I was an early critic, but the results are what matters. And the results are astounding. Losing it to dominating in 10 years. 10 years is nothing, it's like a blink. "The proof is in the pudding"
You take the stuff you like with the stuff you don't like the good with the bad. Only an unwise person focuses only on the stuff he doesn't like.

 

[etekberg]

Love how so many see no issue. You’d prob change your tune if you lost $70k in one year.

Quit focusing on yourself. The world is bigger than you. Yes, sellers lose when this happen, but buyers gain. Be happy for others. You bitch this much about stocks too?

My advice is don't buy a $100k car if you can't stomach losing value. Stick to CDs, Bonds and Government securities.

 

[SO16]

Love how so many see no issue. You’d prob change your tune if you lost $70k in one year.

Also the X was $80k and Plaid was $120k in 2019.

Of course prices go up and down. But the rate of fluctuations and % of fluctuations is extremely high with Tesla. Much higher than any other product or car in the market.

To me this just signals poor planning and gross price gauging. This is also a way to lose existing customers very fast who btw promote your products.

Case in point Apple was able to navigate Covid supply issues so there wasn’t a 12 month wait. Tesla failed here too as they planned very poorly. Apple was also able to keep their prices steady. That’s what wins over customers and grows the business.

Since I don’t buy and sell a car within the same year, my tune wouldn’t change. And since my next purchase would be 35k less, that offsets the “loss” not to mention cheaper insurance and reg fees.

I buy and drive for several years.

X started at 72k in 2019. Refreshed X was higher.

	Original MSRP	KBB Fair Purchase Price (nat'l average)
Standard Range Sport Utility 4D	$72,650

 

[Kan-O-Z]

Quit focusing on yourself. The world is bigger than you. Yes, sellers lose when this happen, but buyers gain. Be happy for others. You bitch this much about stocks too?

My advice is don't buy a $100k car if you can't stomach losing value. Stick to CDs, Bonds and Government securities.

Quit supporting shitty leaders and being complacent.

I’m not focusing on myself but pointing out what a lot of people feel. Will this hurt Tesla. Absolutely. I won’t be promoting them anymore. I’ve gotten several to buy them in the past. I’m sure there will be a thousand like me.

They will gain short term sales but long term it may not be good for them unless they get better leadership.

Apple and big tech know how to do it much better.

 

[SO16]

Quit supporting shitty leaders and being complacent.

I’m not focusing on myself but pointing out what a lot of people feel. Will this hurt Tesla. Absolutely. I won’t be promoting them anymore. I’ve gotten several to buy them in the past. I’m sure there will be a thousand like me.

They will gain short term sales but long term it may not be good for them unless they get better leadership.

Apple and big tech know how to do it much better.

Uh huh.

Heard that after every price drop.

Tesla drops price.

Some people bitch.

More buyers come in.

Tesla still keeps extremely high loyalty rating.

Repeat.