Model Y - Gigafactory Texas Production

[advocate8]

Because you say so ?

I'm not sure about the fraction of unused volume difference between 2170 and 4680 cells but the height difference in 80 vs 70, or about 15%. If the wasted space is the same, the pack mass is ~ 15% closer to the centerline of the car. Elon has said that the difference is felt by the driver and I don't doubt his statement.

Right. Elon says a lot of stuff.

 

[SageBrush]

Right. Elon says a lot of stuff.

When it comes to statements about engineering and physics based on insider knowledge, there is no contest here. Elon is worth reading and you are not.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

When it comes to statements about engineering and physics based on insider knowledge, there is no contest here. Elon is worth reading and you are not.

Yeah, but in this case we appear to be taking Elon's words about his dream of reducing the weight of the pack by a couple hundred pounds and this being something the end user would "feel" and conflating it with current reality that there was essentially NO weight savings in the first iteration of 4680 and we have folks speculating that maybe-if-the-weight-is-very-slightly-differently-distributed-it-would-be-felt... to which my common sense says "nah".

 

[SageBrush]

Yeah, but in this case we appear to be taking Elon's words about his dream of reducing the weight of the pack by a couple hundred pounds and this being something the end user would "feel"

Not we -- you. And you are confused
The improvement in driving dynamics was talked about in the context of the moment of inertia. Can you see how a taller cell would have that effect, all else being equal? I don't think it is difficult to understand even though my understanding of physics is close to nil compared to Elon.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

Not we -- you. And you are confused
The improvement in driving dynamics was talked about in the context of the moment of inertia. Can you see how a taller cell would have that effect, all else being equal? I don't think it is difficult to understand even though my understanding of physics is close to nil compared to Elon.

Driving dynamics would be affected by -significant- change in either mass, or polar moment of inertia. The mass is essentially unchanged. You seem to be really pimping the heck out of a very small difference in cell height, which even if it did total out to a net drop in polar moment of inertia it'd only do so in the 2 directions that don't matter much - it's the lateral turning pole which matters most for handling and it don't care how tall your mass is.

 

[Mrbrock]

Not we -- you. And you are confused
The improvement in driving dynamics was talked about in the context of the moment of inertia. Can you see how a taller cell would have that effect, all else being equal? I don't think it is difficult to understand even though my understanding of physics is close to nil compared to Elon.

The cell height difference is 1cm. 70mm vs 80mm. That enough to feel what you’re talking about?

 

[Mrbrock]

This is what I am thinking, a new battery box for Austin that does not use the battery to take part of the load.
Modularity is a tradeoff of build efficiency vs build flexibility.

From what I have seen and heard the battery box is self contained unit, and if not then very close to it.

Fremont is an old style car production line, it cannot be changed to sled type without costing a huge sum, and months of shut down to do rebuild.

So, this battery box that would encase the 2170 packs from Reno would be made of what exactly? To provide full structural support with no weight? You are adding weight to the car. Which means the Austin 2170 will be slower than the Fremont 2170. Tesla has gone out of their way to not make different versions of the same car. They could have made LR 4680 but as we see now it would have had less range than Fremont which means different versions for different parts of the country. They don’t want to do that.

If, as you suggest, it is as simple as building a structural battery box for the 2170 and putting them in place of the 4680 pack, why isn’t it being done NOW? Austin is currently 4680 constrained. They should be further along in ramp up but they don’t have cells. If 2170 is the answer, then they’d already be doing it. Yet they aren’t. Like they only made SR+ 4680 because of limitations. That alone should tell you something.

 

[KJD]

Anyone know how many cars Giga Texas produced in the month of May ?

 

[SageBrush]

My quotation marks

You seem to be really pimping the heck out of a very "small" difference in cell height

If you cannot write at least semi-quantitively, you are spouting BS.

The difference in height is 80 Vs 70, so if that was the only difference the 2170 cells have a 14% wider spread when the chemistry and capacity are the same.

It seems intuitive that as the cell circumference increases, so does the gap area between cells so the final spread of equal material of the smaller cell will be less than 14% more than the larger cell. I am not sure by how much.

 

[kabin]

Anyone know how many cars Giga Texas produced in the month of May ?

No, but keeping an eye on the car lot parking/movements, they only recently seem to be picking up production so it's probably relatively paltry for May. Rumor has it Austin model Ys will finally be delivered to customers somewhere around Jun 5 and Jun 8.

 

[DarkRelms]

on one of the recent drone flights that i seen on youtube i counted around 300 in the lot

 

[advocate8]

My quotation marks


If you cannot write at least semi-quantitively, you are spouting BS.

The difference in height is 80 Vs 70, so if that was the only difference the 2170 cells have a 14% wider spread when the chemistry and capacity are the same.

It seems intuitive that as the cell circumference increases, so does the gap area between cells so the final spread of equal material of the smaller cell will be less than 14% more than the larger cell. I am not sure by how much.

Not we -- you. And you are confused
The improvement in driving dynamics was talked about in the context of the moment of inertia. Can you see how a taller cell would have that effect, all else being equal? I don't think it is difficult to understand even though my understanding of physics is close to nil compared to Elon.

Look, the current Austin car is just not up to existing MYP standards, let alone the Battery Day hype. Only fanboys could believe otherwise. This discussion is a full waste of time. Putting you on “ignore.” Thanks for playing.

 

[pepperoni]

Not we -- you. And you are confused
The improvement in driving dynamics was talked about in the context of the moment of inertia. Can you see how a taller cell would have that effect, all else being equal? I don't think it is difficult to understand even though my understanding of physics is close to nil compared to Elon.

We’re talking about the dynamics of the car as it takes corners? The turning radius of the car as it takes a corner is far greater than the tiny reduction in the moment of gyration due to 15% taller batteries. This isn’t a spinning spacecraft. The moment of inertia needs to be taken about the point the body is rotating, which isn’t the center of the car. In this case, the mass of the car dominates these dynamics (mass x R^2 >> MOI about cg, where R is the turning radius).

 

[JimMay]

Don't see why they would do this. The SR is a completely differnet model being made in another plant, its creation does not impact the LR or P ar all. If you want one8 then keep refreshing their website and be one of the first to order when it opens up.

I just came here to say you were very much wrong. They are now pushing out Austin MY SR AWD to MYLR and MYP reservation holders like I assumed. It made complete sense before and makes complete sense now.

 

[CVChief]

I just came here to say you were very much wrong. They are now pushing out Austin MY SR AWD to MYLR and MYP reservation holders like I assumed. It made complete sense before and makes complete sense now.

Waited a while for that one..

 

[MontyFloyd]

So, this battery box that would encase the 2170 packs from Reno would be made of what exactly? To provide full structural support with no weight? You are adding weight to the car. Which means the Austin 2170 will be slower than the Fremont 2170. Tesla has gone out of their way to not make different versions of the same car. They could have made LR 4680 but as we see now it would have had less range than Fremont which means different versions for different parts of the country. They don’t want to do that.

If, as you suggest, it is as simple as building a structural battery box for the 2170 and putting them in place of the 4680 pack, why isn’t it being done NOW? Austin is currently 4680 constrained. They should be further along in ramp up but they don’t have cells. If 2170 is the answer, then they’d already be doing it. Yet they aren’t. Like they only made SR+ 4680 because of limitations. That alone should tell you something.

Yes, that is what I am saying.
There maybe be inefficiency and some added weight (could be small), the upside is build flexibility. Sandy talked about this in one of his videos and speculation on a Tesla web site (about 2~3 months ago).
I would also guess this is a short term strategy as Tesla improves production and yields of the 4680.
Yes, speculation, but not wild guess considering how flexible Tesla (and other Musk ventures) is.

As to why they are not, it is all a guess. Could be as simple as it takes time to make adjustments, to improving 4680 production so they do not need to.

And yes, Tesla might drop 4680 completely and go back to 2170, or even Prismatics on the MY. Leaks are limited, have no idea what is going on
Your opinions are just as valid. Lets hope the issues are quickly resolved and production go up quickly.

 

[SageBrush]

They are now pushing out Austin MY SR AWD to MYLR and MYP reservation holders like I assumed. It made complete sense before and makes complete sense now.

I don't know what 'pushing out' means. Tesla is offering to swap orders. I have no idea how many will take them up on the offer but for people like me the offer is 'pay more, get a lot less.' Not very enticing

 

[kabin]

I don't know what 'pushing out' means. Tesla is offering to swap orders. I have no idea how many will take them up on the offer but for people like me the offer is 'pay more, get a lot less.' Not very enticing

It's surprising Tesla isn't honoring the original order price. I would assume they budge if few folks take the offer.

 

[SageBrush]

It's surprising Tesla isn't honoring the original order price. I would assume they budge if few folks take the offer.

My LR will have ~ 50 miles more range than the Model Y SR. That is worth in the neighborhood of $5k to me so being offered the shorter range SR at my original order price is a non-starter.

 

[JimMay]

Waited a while for that one..

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