Model Y P vs Rivian R1S

[thesmokingman]

Admittedly I know very little about the Rivian’s battery. They’re good looking cars and I love the interiors. But I’d also be adverse to buying the first run if any car fir a lot of the reasons you stated in your original post. Give them a chance to work out the kinks first. I bet the efficiency will increase with time and revision.

I'm sure they'll improve some aspects like the software and hopefully charging handshake etc, improve its charging rate etc. But the efficiency is baked into the design. Think about it for a second moment, you cannot do anything to change physics. These things weigh 6000lbs to 7000lbs and are shaped like bricks. They need massive amounts of battery to just get typical or expected range for the price and expectation.

The Model Y is efficient in huge part to its low weight and it's ridiculously low drag coefficient of .23 CD. The stupid low drag coefficient is a hallmark of Tesla design principles. The shape of their cars is dictated by their wind tunnel work. Now look at the Rivians and basically the legacy trucks. They are bricks on wheels. Thus it really should not be a surprise that they are ev guzzlers. The new Lightning, the Hummer all ev guzzlers with even worse efficiency. The Lightning for ex. is guesstimated to have at least a 125kwh battery for a paltry 230mile range and 155-170kwh battery to just get 300 mile range. The hummer? Lmao that thing will use a 200kwh battery, hence the 9000lb weight, smh.

In a real world, think about what that does to charging costs and charging times!

 

[Exelion]

That is probably why Rivian and Ford are going after after a completely different market than the everyday person who needs a getaround car with the occasional long distance drive.

Ford’s targeting a pro workforce that need capability, hauling, and utility. Work trucks that are part of a fleet of vehicles. Rivian looks like they’re going after the REI richventure crowd, the type who love the outdoors AND has a buncha money to burn, replacing Land Rovers with Rivians. Both of these segments are replacing gas guzzlers with slightly cheaper electric guzzlers so it’s a win for all, I guess.

 

[Ogre]

Dare I say that can be about as (or more than) paying for gasoline?

Its almost certainly less than a gasoline truck at a public fast charger. Not a ton less, but less.

Home charging will be a lot less expensive though. Likely half the cost of running a gasoline truck. The F150 will likely be worse. I’m hoping the Cybertruck will be much better, but maybe I’m being optimistic.

You don’t buy a big truck if you want efficiency.

 

[Ogre]

In a real world, think about what that does to charging costs and charging times!

I think a lot of people forget that a vehicle that requires twice as much juice takes nearly twice as long to charge.

It doesn’t help that reviewers tend to gloss over charge times when comparing cars.

 

[leaftoy]

You started this stupid down voting cuz you disagreed that the Y is a smaller than the R1S.

The R1S is ****ing huge. And it weighs a lot more like 1500 pounds more. /smh

I have no clue what an R1S is. First time I heard about it was in this thread. But you keep insisting Y is closer to RAV4 in dimensions than to a 4 Runner. That is objectively incorrect. Whether you use overall length or rear seat leg room.

 

[thesmokingman]

I have no clue what an R1S is. First time I heard about it was in this thread. But you keep insisting Y is closer to RAV4 in dimensions than to a 4 Runner. That is objectively incorrect. Whether you use overall length or rear seat leg room.

Wrong again.

Toyota classes their 4runner as a fullsize SUV.

Explore the 2022 Toyota 4Runner on the official Toyota site. Find this full-size SUV at a Toyota dealership near you, or build and price your own online ...

Tesla classes the Model Y as a mid-size SUV, aka CUV.

Model Y is a fully electric, mid-size SUV, with seating for up to seven, dual motor AWD and unparalleled protection.

 

[thesmokingman]

I’m hoping the Cybertruck will be much better, but maybe I’m being optimistic.

You don’t buy a big truck if you want efficiency.

The CT has a silly low CD as well, hence it's awkward shape, Musk stated it was .30 which is stupid low. Some don't believe that so independents have thrown it thru the CFD hammer and gotten something around .34 CD which is still crazy low for a massive shape. That said efficiency is Musk's bottom line in principle so I'd expect it to lead in that category vs the other ev trucks. Btw drag is everything when it comes to range at highway speeds.

 

[Ogre]

The CT has a silly low CD as well, hence it's awkward shape, Musk stated it was .30 which is stupid low. Some don't believe that so independents have thrown it thru the CFD hammer and gotten something around .34 CD which is still crazy low for a massive shape. That said efficiency is Musk's bottom line in principle so I'd expect it to lead in that category vs the other ev trucks. Btw drag is everything when it comes to range at highway speeds.

I am a huge CT fan. But I’m very much in wait-and-see mode with regards to specs.

Based on what we’ve heard it should be phenomenal in terms of efficiency. But I’d prefer to see the numbers first.

 

[Brando]

I don’t think Rivian will ever build out their own charger network.

Rivian will - just have to drive from National Park to National Park.

If/ when Tesla opens up their chargers to the rest of the world, this will all shift and change.

Works in Holland even before Rivian is available.

 

[Ogre]

Rivian will - just have to drive from National Park to National Park.

Even assuming they had 100% national park coverage. There are no national parks between me and the coast. I don’t think there are any along the 5 corridor between here and Portland either. Or here and Bend… in fact where are the National Parks in Oregon?

Makes zero sense.

 

[SkeetShooter]

So one thing that maybe being glossed over here, actually a few things, but lets start with CD on the CT vs the R1T... According to the engineers at Rivian, the CD is .30 (which is exactly what Tesla claimed the CT has) so no argument about shape being less or more efficient, and bringing the efficiency down. Whether you believe Rivian or not is the same as believing Elon IMO.

What does this mean? Comparing CT and R1T, using R1T as a base of known measurables, CT has a massive uphill climb ahead of it if Tesla is going to make good on any of the promised numbers regarding range. 7200 lbs R1T, for the CT to be any more efficient, it needs to be much lighter than that and with 4680 cells, hopefully have a smaller Battery pack in relation to the 135KW pack of the R1T. If they can make it get to that 300mile number with a 100kw battery pack then they have beaten all the other up and coming EV trucks, regardless of how late to market it is. But if it comes with a 135KW battery pack, guess what? Its just as bad as the R1T.

Another thing regarding this pissing war in this thread regarding CUV vs SUV, etc... Personally I don't care how you classify it. What I looked at was the availability of space and overall CUFT storage, and ultimately usability of storage. My wife has a Jeep Grand Cherokee. The MY has the same exact storage volume. Things that take up space in her car would ultimately be stored in the frunk, allowing larger items to be stored in the rear of the MY. I don't think anyone here can rationalize that the 7-seater of the MY is functional for adults or even moderately large adolescents, just like the same can be said of my GX470. Yes its a 7 seater, but damn in that back row you are not going to be comfortable at all.

Back to the OP's original questions, do you see value in the R1S over a MY. Yeah I think there is a lot of value in that vehicle. A lot of people here are putting a ton of importance on the charging network, and I think that is an entirely valid concern, but ask yourself. Is it a big concern for you, ie, what kind of vehicle is this going to be. Road tripping? Maybe not a great idea due to infrastructure and charging network. Around town, or commuter car, pick up the kids go camping etc... Probably OK. You can't make your decisions today based on problems or possible solutions of tomorrow. Everything is changing and hopfully for the better.

 

[mypsandiego]

Even assuming they had 100% national park coverage. There are no national parks between me and the coast. I don’t think there are any along the 5 corridor between here and Portland either. Or here and Bend… in fact where are the National Parks in Oregon?

Makes zero sense.

Crater lake dude!

 

[Peelz]

I don’t think Rivian will ever build out their own charger network.

There might be one other non-Tesla network by the time this shakes out.

If/ when Tesla opens up their chargers to the rest of the world, this will all shift and change.

this ^

I'm in a Cybertruck/Rivian ping pong match lol. We'll need a car in 1-1.5 yrs... There is NO doubt the Rivians are well designed, but... the Tesla network is just SO good. and intuitive. In a metro area, maybe that's different but we live an hour from everywhere lol QUICK charging is a major requirement.



Really like that R1S, but its sorta unknown, and our Y (LR) is perfect and available NOW. So Unless the 6-7 seats are absolutely needed for larger humans and you need to haul/tow, I vote for the Y, especially if you're considering the P version. We don't have the P, and its already blindingly faster than anything we've ever owned.

not sure you can go wrong here-to be honest.

 

[MatildaModelY]

If you get the Rivian, are you prepared to only wear plaid shirts and beanies, 100% of the time?

 

[DanDi58]

I really like the R1S but the efficiency does bother me. The biggest question my non-EV owner friends ask me is - how far does it go? How long does it take to charge? If the R1S with that size battery doesn't push the envelope, then that's a concern to me. I only want to buy MORE efficient vehicles, not less.

I do have a CT on order but mainly did that (before ordering and getting my MY) for poops and giggles. To me, the MY and R1S aren't comparable at all. Different purposes. And the Mazda CX-5 comparison is spot on - I sold my 2014 CX-5 after getting my MY. The MY is a little bigger in every dimension than the CX-5 (and the Ford Escape) as well. Where they DO differ is height of the load floor. No differential or spare tire means much lower floor in the MY.

 

[Ogre]

I really like the R1S but the efficiency does bother me. The biggest question my non-EV owner friends ask me is - how far does it go? How long does it take to charge? If the R1S with that size battery doesn't push the envelope, then that's a concern to me. I only want to buy MORE efficient vehicles, not less.

The R1S will be more efficient than any non-EV on the market.

But I suspect the Rivian will be the least efficient EV SUV on the market by a pretty large margin. The Model Y and the Model X just absolutely crush the drag tests.

The crazy thing is the Model X likely costs less for Tesla to build than it costs Rivian to build the R1S. They are just in such demand they can push the prices up that much and still sell them like crazy. Margins are going to be insane coming into 2022 and only get better (for Tesla).

 

[DanDi58]

The R1S will be more efficient than any non-EV on the market.

Moot point as I don't plan to buy any more non-EV's.

 

[Ogre]

Agree. You said you were comparing it to non-EVs with your friends.

 

[Exelion]

The crazy thing is the Model X likely costs less for Tesla to build than it costs Rivian to build the R1S.

A lot of that is due to Tesla has a 10 year head start in designing, making, and supporting (the latter two need work, of course) EV’s. Granted some Rivian employees did come from Tesla but still, they are still behind, although I don’t think by much.

 

[Ogre]

I'm in a Cybertruck/Rivian ping pong match lol. We'll need a car in 1-1.5 yrs... There is NO doubt the Rivians are well designed, but... the Tesla network is just SO good. and intuitive. In a metro area, maybe that's different but we live an hour from everywhere lol QUICK charging is a major requirement.

Unless my Tesla stock explodes, I’m really not comfortable spending $70k+ on a car. That’s basically carving a year out of retirement. So for my it’s pretty much Cybertruck or maybe another Model Y.