Model Y vs Mustang Mach E

[Midnightsun]

This pretty much sums up what everyone is getting, a good 30% less than advertised in real world driving. As more manufacturer enter the market and give true figure like we see for Porsche and the emach, Tesla is going to stick out like a sore thumb. EPA needs to make tests the same for all in every respect and not offer options. The 75mph constant speed range test is a very good real life test which gives accurate figures IMHO.

Here's a pretty good video that breaks down how EV manufacturers come up with their range numbers.

 

[ElGringo]

Tesla should be worried because there are potential buyers that went with the Mach-E because of Tesla's poor quality reputation. But, most just hate how ugly the Y is lol

We stopped at a Ford dealer today to see the Mach E. Sorry, but the fit and finish was terrible. Among others, huge misalignment between front and rear passenger doors, so bad that the upper door seal could not touch the car body. Lots of exterior black piano finish trims had scratches. Part of the design, there is a huge finger size hole where the bottom of A pillar meets the front door.

Seeing is believing.

 

[pt19713]

We stopped at a Ford dealer today to see the Mach E. Sorry, but the fit and finish was terrible. Among others, huge misalignment between front and rear passenger doors, so bad that the upper door seal could not touch the car body. Lots of exterior black piano finish trims had scratches. Part of the design, there is a huge finger size hole where the bottom of A pillar meets the front door.

Seeing is believing.

Made in Mexico

 

[polyphonic54]

I mean, give them a chance. It's a brand new model in the first year. We all looked the other way on Tesla panel gaps.

 

[cusetownusa]

This pretty much sums up what everyone is getting, a good 30% less than advertised in real world driving. As more manufacturer enter the market and give true figure like we see for Porsche and the emach, Tesla is going to stick out like a sore thumb. EPA needs to make tests the same for all in every respect and not offer options. The 75mph constant speed range test is a very good real life test which gives accurate figures IMHO.

i agree, this video was a great explanation on how the EPA rating works. A city rating and highway rating at multiple speeds (ie 65, 70, 75) would be very helpful to set expectation for new EV drivers.

 

[RDoc]

I mean, give them a chance. It's a brand new model in the first year. We all looked the other way on Tesla panel gaps.

Um, but Tesla was a new company. To my knowlege Ford has been making cars for several years longer. Of course, it may be that there's something inherent in BEVs that make doors fit poorly. Yeah, that must be it.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Remember, the EPA test (which is done almost always by the manufacturers to published standards, not by the EPA) is done on a dyno. So any wind resistance losses are calculated, not actually measured.

That's not quite correct. The coefficients used for the calculation are measured from a real world "coast-down" test.
EPA Refines Fuel-Economy Testing Guidelines, Promises Stricter Enforcement – News – Car and Driver

 

[stopcrazypp]

I mean, give them a chance. It's a brand new model in the first year. We all looked the other way on Tesla panel gaps.

People in comments of articles certainly don't look away. There are countless times where I've seen people claim Tesla's panel gap issues will never happen with "real" carmakers.

 

[Pied]

We stopped at a Ford dealer today to see the Mach E. Sorry, but the fit and finish was terrible. Among others, huge misalignment between front and rear passenger doors, so bad that the upper door seal could not touch the car body. Lots of exterior black piano finish trims had scratches. Part of the design, there is a huge finger size hole where the bottom of A pillar meets the front door.

Seeing is believing.

I'm not surprised. If you owned or looked at the S550 (2015+) Mustangs, they have horrible panel alignment/fitment with the hood and fenders.I guess it does earn the Mustang name.

 

[SSonnentag]

Not true. Each manufacture has some flexibility with the "fudge" number.

Regardless of the fudge number, the EPA needs to update the highway test and increase it to 65mph. It's an outdated specification since highways haven't had a max speed of 55 mph in decades.

Manufacturers are allowed to quote a LOWER number, but not higher. Regardless of what we feel the EPA test SHOULD look like, it is equal across the board for all manufacturers and vehicles selling in the US.

 

[pt19713]

Manufacturers are allowed to quote a LOWER number, but not higher. Regardless of what we feel the EPA test SHOULD look like, it is equal across the board for all manufacturers and vehicles selling in the US.

My other post shows the three (3) additional urban cycles. That's one way how Tesla is getting an extra 22 miles of range. Ford submitted the standard process, not choosing to add in additional urban cycles.

 

[pt19713]

Here's the Ford Mach-E AWD extended range cert:
https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=51341&flag=1

Page 41 shows them submitting with the standard process (1 urban cycle), no additional urban cycles, which is how Tesla squeeks out additional miles.

 

[SSonnentag]

Yes, they still do. Tesla uses the combined rating in their marketing materials.

Many manufacturers only report the highway numbers in their marketing materials, by stating things like "up to xx mpg." The EPA numbers and window stickers always report the weighted average of highway and city driving, and usually include separate values for city and highway as well.

 

[pt19713]

Many manufacturers only report the highway numbers in their marketing materials, by stating things like "up to xx mpg." The EPA numbers and window stickers always report the weighted average of highway and city driving, and usually include separate values for city and highway as well.

I'm not talking about other manufacturers and how they use highway ratings. We're talking Tesla here. Right off their website:

The Monroney Sticker isn't marketing material, it's a requirement.
I haven't seen Tesla show anything separating their city and highway ratings. Obviously it doesn't mean it doesn't exist but if you have something you, feel free to post it here. I just don't see Tesla advertisements in my region (do they even advertise?).

 

[Uncle Paul]

Wonder what most owners feel is most important. Having great range, but no on-highway fast chargers or having fantastic Supercharging network, but slightly lower range?

 

[jcanoe]

Wonder what most owners feel is most important. Having great range, but no on-highway fast chargers or having fantastic Supercharging network, but slightly lower range?

I might have purchased a Standard Range Model Y if it had been available. I have never taken a road trip where I needed to use a Supercharger. I still think that cost aside the larger battery capacity is preferable. The charging infrastructure will only improve over time. An EV's battery will lose some capacity over time so having additional range is extra insurance against battery degradation, cold weather and the occasional need for additional range.

 

[Cleo-n-Company]

Made in Mexico

I thought all the manufacturing jobs had come back to the USA as of November 2020

 

[stopcrazypp]

My other post shows the three (3) additional urban cycles. That's one way how Tesla is getting an extra 22 miles of range. Ford submitted the standard process, not choosing to add in additional urban cycles.
View attachment 635828

The 5 cycle test actually is the standard method. It has been required for ICE cars since the 2012 model year. The corrected 2 cycle actually is the legacy test cycle that only EVs can still continue using.
The Truth About EPA City / Highway MPG Estimates
And as per EPA, having those 3 cycles in the MCT for the range test actually is the more accurate way of doing things. The 0.7 fudge factor absent of that actually is the approximation.
How the EPA determines an electric vehicle’s range - not as simple as it sounds | Torque News

So in terms of what is "standard", actually Tesla (and I believe Audi) is using it. The thing is it may result in a higher number, but actually that is a more accurate representation of the cycles EPA was designing for.

People may call for a more conservative cycle overall (a steady state 70-75mph seems to be what a lot of publications do), but that's a completely different subject matter.

 

[Dennisis]

I thought all the manufacturing jobs had come back to the USA as of November 2020

They're going to pay for the wall and China is going to pay all the tariffs first, lot's of kool aid to go around....

 

[Teledatageek]

Wonder what most owners feel is most important. Having great range, but no on-highway fast chargers or having fantastic Supercharging network, but slightly lower range?

I think that's an interesting thought. For me it depends on the definition of "great". I would actually rather not have to supercharge with a 180 mile roundtrip in the winter and just charge at home. I have more faith in the SC network vs. the rest at this point. Jump ball