My experience taking Tesla to court about FSD

[Leejmoff]

I purchased a new MYP in January with the knowledge that USS had been removed. I discussed this with them in the showroom and they assured me performance parity would come - I was skeptical however as I'd seen early results. I was careful to document the discussions and also emailed a few times and received replies. The replies from Tesla referred me to their press announcement and vision "meeting or exceeding" the performance of USS. It very clearly hasn't.

I emailed them again a few weeks ago to ask when we could expect performance parity and noting that the system basically doesn't work at all after heavy rain, with road film or where there is low sunshine; unlike USS which does work under those conditions. They replied very generally (likely deliberately) and mentioned future updates improving functionality - this is contrary to what they told you.

I suspect there are sufficient videos about the continued poor performance of the vision system to challenge Tesla if someone was so inclined. Currently I can just about cope with the (cr@p) vision system and ask the wife to hop out and guide if I'm in a very tight spot. If I'm on my own, it all becomes a bit more of a gradual procedure to make sure I don't hit anything. However, my main concern is that the vision system has devalued the car relative to one with USS, although the cr@p performance can be more than inconvenient at times.

If there was some sort of collective action I'd likely jump on it. However, I don't think it's something I would do on my own as whilst irritating, it's not an all-consuming issue for me. Tesla does deserve a poke in the eye over it for sure though. They know it's cr@p but will obfuscate as much as they can to avoid the issue. For now I'll keep my powder dry and the emails and screen grabs of their publications and promises safe.

And this is exactly why I'm not selling my current M3 with USS and stalks. Its backwards to even think Vision will be just as good on on par with USS.

Tesla just don't give a crap unfortunately, you either put up with it or don't. Its a major reason for me not investing in another new car with Tesla. I'd rather wait until they fully open the SC network up and go elsewhere.

 

[Dracaris]

And this is exactly why I'm not selling my current M3 with USS and stalks. Its backwards to even think Vision will be just as good on on par with USS.

Tesla just don't give a crap unfortunately, you either put up with it or don't. Its a major reason for me not investing in another new car with Tesla. I'd rather wait until they fully open the SC network up and go elsewhere.

That network opening should start happening for real in the 2025 model year when several of the biggest auto makers have committed to delivering cars with NACS sockets. Looking forward to that, because it'll also juice competition in the EV space - Tesla will no longer be the only car in town with a solid SC network. Can't wait!

 

[WllXM]

That network opening should start happening for real in the 2025 model year when several of the biggest auto makers have committed to delivering cars with NACS sockets. Looking forward to that, because it'll also juice competition in the EV space - Tesla will no longer be the only car in town with a solid SC network. Can't wait!

You are in the UK forum. Network opening has already happened here for over a year. Just not at every single location yet.

 

[Durzel]

True, but it was useful info regardless

As I undertand it all new supercharger sites will be V4, and open to all by default. On the assumption that Tesla will seek to upgrade V3 stalls to V4 as well it seems logical to assume the network will become more and more open over time.

 

[Adopado]

That network opening should start happening for real in the 2025 model year when several of the biggest auto makers have committed to delivering cars with NACS sockets. Looking forward to that, because it'll also juice competition in the EV space - Tesla will no longer be the only car in town with a solid SC network. Can't wait!

Being on the same connector is just one step ... all rapid chargers in the UK are on the same type of connector (including Tesla) and we are still in the situation of Tesla Superchargers working 99% of the time and others ... em, not so much!

 

[Jason71]

True, but it was useful info regardless

As I undertand it all new supercharger sites will be V4, and open to all by default. On the assumption that Tesla will seek to upgrade V3 stalls to V4 as well it seems logical to assume the network will become more and more open over time.

Tesla has never been into upgrading superchargers so that assumption may be a stretch.
Having said that if I am interpreting the new regs correctly having card readers on public chargers will be mandatory soon so presumably Tesla will have to upgrade the V3/V2 that are open to the public ( at least with a card reader, but new V4 stalls + cables would seem to be the best way to do that). They would also have to upgrade any further sites that they want to open to the public so this may in fact slow up the opening up of the network since they will have to do some actual work not just flip a switch. Of course replacing V2/V3 stalls with V4 shells does not necessarily mean that they have to upgrade the power supplies so maybe we will get some hybids systems. V2 inside V4 outside maybe?
Not great for anyone with a Non CCS Car if the V2 cabs get replaced of course

 

[WllXM]

Tesla has never been into upgrading superchargers so that assumption may be a stretch.
Having said that if I am interpreting the new regs correctly having card readers on public chargers will be mandatory soon so presumably Tesla will have to upgrade the V3/V2 that are open to the public ( at least with a card reader, but new V4 stalls + cables would seem to be the best way to do that). They would also have to upgrade any further sites that they want to open to the public so this may in fact slow up the opening up of the network since they will have to do some actual work not just flip a switch. Of course replacing V2/V3 stalls with V4 shells does not necessarily mean that they have to upgrade the power supplies so maybe we will get some hybids systems. V2 inside V4 outside maybe?
Not great for anyone with a Non CCS Car if the V2 cabs get replaced of course

I'm guessing the regulation will only apply to new sites being built not existing ones as it has been the case in the past, so no upgrades at all in sight.

As for non-CCS cars, and I believe you mean v1 MS/MX, I certainly hope that all owners by now have made the CCS-upgrade with the adapter bit. Of course, they will be a bit in a pickle if they forget/misplace it one day but...

 

[Jason71]

I'm guessing the regulation will only apply to new sites being built not existing ones as it has been the case in the past, so no upgrades at all in sight.

As for non-CCS cars, and I believe you mean v1 MS/MX, I certainly hope that all owners by now have made the CCS-upgrade with the adapter bit. Of course, they will be a bit in a pickle if they forget/misplace it one day but...

Guess again.

For all new public charge points and for existing rapid charge points there must be contactless payment withing 12 months of the 2023 charge point regulations going into force. For an existing private charge point that becomes a public charge point, the 12-month period starts from the date the charger becomes public.

I think the regulations already went into force, someone correct me if wrong, So to me it looks like Tesla have some work to do and less than 12 months to do it.

there is a decent if long summary of them here:

Public Charge Point Regulations 2023 Breakdown - EVA England

EVA England volunteer Maz Shar gives a detailed overview on the Public Charge Point Regulations 2023 in the UK.

www.evaengland.org.uk

 

[JIBYC]

Guess again.

For all new public charge points and for existing rapid charge points there must be contactless payment withing 12 months of the 2023 charge point regulations going into force. For an existing private charge point that becomes a public charge point, the 12-month period starts from the date the charger becomes public.

I think the regulations already went into force, someone correct me if wrong, So to me it looks like Tesla have some work to do and less than 12 months to do it.

there is a decent if long summary of them here:

Public Charge Point Regulations 2023 Breakdown - EVA England

EVA England volunteer Maz Shar gives a detailed overview on the Public Charge Point Regulations 2023 in the UK.

www.evaengland.org.uk

Are the Teslas superchargers not currently open to all private?

 

[Jason71]

Are the Teslas superchargers not currently open to all private?

I am pretty sure that is how you would define them yes.
They are privately owned by Tesla and open only to those the people Tesla allow to use them which is pretty much the definition of private I think.

 

[KennethS]

Are the Teslas superchargers not currently open to all private?

Based on my reading of the legislation, any supercharger that is restricted in use to Tesla vehicles only is not considered public. So unless and until Tesla opens up a particular supercharger to other car brands it does not fall within the requirements placed on "public" chargers regardless of the location.

 

[NewbieT]

The short term answer for Tesla might be to revert some of the public chargers to Tesla Only again (apart from sites where the lease/connection agreement requires them to be public access).

 

[Ant M3]

I have got to say … this is absolutely brilliant and I will 100% be doing this

 

[dualcyclone]

Thanks for this write-up @edb49 ! I have been seriously considering this for some time, and aggrieved that Tesla won't even offer to port FSD permanently for people who bought the package who haven't received the features. It's one of the reasons I've decided not to upgrade my vehicle, which must be costing Tesla if other people feel the same as me.

I might give this a go, may I contact you for help & advice if I proceed with this?

 

[dualcyclone]

I wonder if there is a solicitor who would undertake a group claim for this, similar to the diesel claim?

 

[MrBadger]

I wonder if there is a solicitor who would undertake a group claim for this, similar to the diesel claim?

Noooooo. If I was undertaking this I would want full (with interest) claim to be repaid rather than some claim chaser taking a huge share of money for what would be a relatively small amount of effort for an individual to take. Seems to be a pretty good case to me - plenty of advice on UK law online to know what bits have been breached and hope that Tesla will do the right thing now without need for individuals to need to do anything. What this claim has done is show there is a valid claim and that Tesla acknowledges that to settle out of court.

 

[Huggybear]

Would be good to hear how others have progressed after using edb49 method (thank you edb49). Now Tesla will have a reasonable amount of claims it would be interesting to see what path they take now. I brought my model 3 in Sept 2019 with FSD so will also be sending the appropriate letters to Tesla to start my claim. Will update as I progress.

Out of interest I also managed to get the auto garage door opener installed after my delivery as it was advertised when ordered then they changed it to an option. Also managed to keep Premium Connectivity free as again this was sold as free when took delivery.

 

[MrBadger]

Out of interest I also managed to get the auto garage door opener installed after my delivery as it was advertised when ordered then they changed it to an option.

Ditto. I only had to ask. No quibble. And front boot liner. They know when they are in the wrong. And I know some others got front fog lights on the SR.

 

[Js1977]

Noooooo. If I was undertaking this I would want full (with interest) claim to be repaid rather than some claim chaser taking a huge share of money for what would be a relatively small amount of effort for an individual to take. Seems to be a pretty good case to me - plenty of advice on UK law online to know what bits have been breached and hope that Tesla will do the right thing now without need for individuals to need to do anything. What this claim has done is show there is a valid claim and that Tesla acknowledges that to settle out of court.

Grow some balls and go for it like someone else here did and stop prodding around like you're scared to get in the water first

 

[NewbieT]

To be fair to Tesla, when you make it impossible for them to do anything else, they do tend to do the right thing.