My request that the Arizona Attorney General's office investigate Tesla's changes to Ludicrous Mode

[TIppy]

What's with all the aggression?

Exactly! So you did understand my point.

 

[bonnie]

Exactly! So you did understand my point.

It may surprise you to learn that I'm not looking for your approval.

I was just surprised by your remarks in response to a Buddhist chant and commented upon that.

 

[TIppy]

It may surprise you to learn that I'm not looking for your approval.

I was just surprised by your remarks in response to a Buddhist chant and commented upon that.

I'm sorry you are unable to see the hypocrisy of the post that contains that chant.

 

[Walta]

Excellent. What did they do for you?

Everything is wrapping up next week. I will know better at that time what I can make public.

 

[MP3Mike]

Everything is wrapping up next week. I will know better at that time what I can make public.

So that sounds like you are willing to sign an NDA if Tesla requests one?

 

[Walta]

So that sounds like you are willing to sign an NDA if Tesla requests one?

Yes. Though when my battery was replaced earlier for range related issues they also verbally mentioned the need to sign an NDA. Though it ended up that they did not require me to sign anything.

So I will know better next week.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Even if the car I have could meet the specs? Would it be OK to you if Tesla changed how ludicrous mode was implemented post purchase? To make it less likely to be used? What point would you say enough already? If Tesla changed ludicrous mode to only operate after max battery was ready - then changed max battery ready to take 72 hours? Would you want your money back then?

Except that none of those are appropriate examples. Tesla has not done any of this. All they have done, according to you and others, is change the maximum Amperage of Ludicrous Mode from 1,600A to 1,500A. Tesla never promised you would get 1600A, they promised you a specific 0-60 time. Tesla can reduce your max Amperage to 10A if it still met their advertised specification. You did not purchase your vehicle based on a maximum Amperage. If you did, I'd love to see the documentation.

They did advertise amperages and how they affected 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile times. Not to mention that most of the numbers that Tesla puts up on their website have little to do with absolute specs. All we can do is observe what we get and see if they change.

They did? Where? Can you please provide a link or copy of a Tesla advertisement or web page that backs this up?

 

[Walta]

Except that none of those are appropriate examples. Tesla has not done any of this. All they have done, according to you and others, is change the maximum Amperage of Ludicrous Mode from 1,600A to 1,500A. Tesla never promised you would get 1600A, they promised you a specific 0-60 time. Tesla can reduce your max Amperage to 10A if it still met their advertised specification. You did not purchase your vehicle based on a maximum Amperage. If you did, I'd love to see the documentation.


They did? Where? Can you please provide a link or copy of a Tesla advertisement or web page that backs this up?

Regarding your comment above that all that Tesla changed is max current is not true in my case. It is the most recent change of the many Tesla has made to the implementation of ludicrous mode since when I purchased the car in Oct 2015. The current implementation of ludicrous mode that my car has is not something I would have purchased if I had known what I know now.
Refer to my earlier post in this thread comparing the verbiage related to ludicrous mode of a 2015 owners manual and the current 2017 owners manual.

 

[TIppy]

They did? Where? Can you please provide a link or copy of a Tesla advertisement or web page that backs this up?

Three Dog Day
This was when the 90kwh pack first came out and ludicrous was first announced. The problem was that 1500 amps wasn't enough to meet the 10.9 sec 1/4 mile. It took two more iterations of the battery pack and ultimately 1620 amps to meet the 10.9 sec 1/4 mile claim. So you see the ludicrous option that was delivered to me was the one required to meet their claims. Now they have removed one-third of the option I paid for.

All seems rather moot since Tesla appears to be making accommodations.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Yeah, frankly I can see the theory behind first world problem references and philosophical chants being used to try to ridicule or silence people with legitimate complaints.

Whether or not people did it in this thread goes to private intent I am not privy to, but it is not hard for me to see what @TIppy is talking about. Certainly it seems plausible.

If someone had a legitimate complaint against myself or an interest of mine (say, stock ownership), it might be in my interest to try to belittle that complaint through similar methods. Not that I would do such a thing, but I can see how it would be in my interest to try.

 

[jeffro01]

Yeah, frankly I can see the theory behind first world problem references and philosophical chants being used to try to ridicule or silence people with legitimate complaints.

Whether or not people did it in this thread goes to private intent I am not privy to, but it is not hard for me to see what @TIppy is talking about. Certainly it seems plausible.

If someone had a legitimate complaint against myself or an interest of mine (say, stock ownership), it might be in my interest to try to belittle that complaint through similar methods. Not that I would do such a thing, but I can see how it would be in my interest to try.

As for me, it's not that I don't find the complaints legitimate. They most certainly are legitimate. My issues stem elsewhere on this...

Jeff

 

[qwk]

For me, it is all so much simpler than is being portrayed. This is not at all a complaint of the car. The car is epic. This is simply the reaction of owners who bought the car - paid for certain options - and didn't get what they paid for. There is an effort by some of the owners to have Tesla compensate them. This thread is related to those owners efforts.

That being said - the information needed to support that effort would be related to the differences between the option sold versus the option delivered. As well as how the over the air updates have changed the option negatively over time. That information is most pertinent to the motivation of this thread.

All the rest makes for an interesting discussion on ethics and big business practices, which is cool.

Exactly. The car is not the problem.

 

[jeffro01]

So what do you suggest? Shutting up and taking it in the .......? I can't believe the ignorance on this forum anymore. There are some mom and pop dealerships that actually operate with ethics in mind. They are few and far between, but they exist. With Tesla, there is no such option. For complex issues/problems, once the mothership decides something, you are SOL.

Really? You think it's ignorance to resist the stealership model? I have yet to ever see a stealership that operated with ethics in mind... In my opinion, they simply do not exist. It's impossible for ethical middle men to exist, they have to make money, they have to make a profit and they do not operate for the good of humanity...

What Tesla is doing with regards to their sales and service model is working. Is it perfect? No, but nothing is. Is it good enough? I think so. Can it be improved? Absolutely. Why should anyone volunteer to pay even more for their car just so someone in the middle can make their cut? It just doesn't make any logical sense.

What do I suggest? Tesla keep working on improving their existing model, it works, it can get better, so keep working on making it better.

If I didn't know any better I'd accuse you of either working for a stealership or having some sort of emotional/financial investment into one... IMHO, there is no other reason to support that ridiculous business model...

Jeff

 

[qwk]

Really? You think it's ignorance to resist the stealership model? I have yet to ever see a stealership that operated with ethics in mind... In my opinion, they simply do not exist. It's impossible for ethical middle men to exist, they have to make money, they have to make a profit and they do not operate for the good of humanity...

What Tesla is doing with regards to their sales and service model is working. Is it perfect? No, but nothing is. Is it good enough? I think so. Can it be improved? Absolutely. Why should anyone volunteer to pay even more for their car just so someone in the middle can make their cut? It just doesn't make any logical sense.

What do I suggest? Tesla keep working on improving their existing model, it works, it can get better, so keep working on making it better.

If I didn't know any better I'd accuse you of either working for a stealership or having some sort of emotional/financial investment into one... IMHO, there is no other reason to support that ridiculous business model...

Jeff

Oh boy, where do I start. I, like yourself, used to be 100% against stealerships(look up my early posts). The problem started when the car had a few problems, and went in for service. Service introduced even more problems, and then the firmware shenanigans started. In my experience, Service got worse, not better, and with more cars/no service center expansion, it's insanity to think it will improve.

I will tell you that I have bought thousands of parts from stealerships with no hassle, but the first time I went to order a couple of bolts from Tesla, the Sevice Center wouldnt do it. I had to call Fremont in order to get it sorted out. That kind of behavior by a company is beyond ridiculous to any sane person IMHO.

 

[McRat]

You're confusing two different issues... Buying parts has nothing to do with stealerships, they buy their parts from the OEM just like you had to do, nothing changes there. ...

Jeff

Just curious, do even buy parts for vehicles?

Just in case, let me enlighten you how to do it.

Let's say I need a wheel hub assy for a Silverado 3/4 ton. I can pay max MSRP ($535) at one dealership, or go to another who runs a 10% discount book, or another that runs a 20%, or online order (from a dealership) for up to 50% off ($277)
, or choose an aftermarket replacement item for even less, $169 at O'Reilly, but not OEM, so take your chances.

Sometimes I need to pickup components Will Call at distribution hubs when none of the area dealers has it in stock. Very few parts take more than 72 hrs to acquire.

Can you explain to me why that sucks when compared to Single Source restricted supply chains for spares?

 

[jeffro01]

Just curious, do even buy parts for vehicles?

Just in case, let me enlighten you how to do it.

Let's say I need a wheel hub assy for a Silverado 3/4 ton. I can pay max MSRP ($535) at one dealership, or go to another who runs a 10% discount book, or another that runs a 20%, or online order for up to 50% off ($277)
, or choose an aftermarket replacement item for even less, $169 at O'Reilly, but not OEM, so take your chances.

Sometimes I need to pickup components Will Call at distribution hubs when none of the area dealers has it in stock. Very few parts take more than 72 hrs to acquire.

Can you explain to me why that sucks when compared to Single Source restricted supply chains for spares?

Ugh... Yes I have bought plenty of parts for various cars over the year... I don't need you're sarcastic explanation of the process...

So allow me to enlighten you... If Tesla doesn't want it's parts sold to end users, they won't be sold to end users. I don't know how much clearer I can make this... While I don't have a parts breakdown for a Tesla, I "assume" that the majority of parts are not off the shelf OEM parts like you'd find from rock auto or through your parts dealer of choice...

All of that aside, my personal opinion of this is every owner should be able to buy parts from a Tesla service center whenever they want for whatever reason they have provided they provide a valid VIN. Furthermore, I think you should be able to buy parts from 3rd party people should they be able to acquire them as well. That still doesn't justify putting steamships in place, as I said before, that's still a complete separate argument... Some of you are confusing parts with service and they are different entities...

Jeff

 

[qwk]

I'm convinced you either own a stealership, have financial interest in one, or have a friend/someone close who does... There is simply no other logical explication for your unwavering advocacy that we all pay more so you can feel like you're right...

Yet you have the audacity to call me ignorant... Sorry I'm not on board with helping you, or someone you know, make money off the backs of the rest of us...

Jeff

None of the above. i'm just not biased in any way, unlike yourself.

 

[qwk]

Ugh... Yes I have bought plenty of parts for various cars over the year... I don't need you're sarcastic explanation of the process...

So allow me to enlighten you... If Tesla doesn't want it's parts sold to end users, they won't be sold to end users. I don't know how much clearer I can make this... While I don't have a parts breakdown for a Tesla, I "assume" that the majority of parts are not off the shelf OEM parts like you'd find from rock auto or through your parts dealer of choice...

All of that aside, my personal opinion of this is every owner should be able to buy parts from a Tesla service center whenever they want for whatever reason they have provided they provide a valid VIN. Furthermore, I think you should be able to buy parts from 3rd party people should they be able to acquire them as well. That still doesn't justify putting steamships in place, as I said before, that's still a complete separate argument... Some of you are confusing parts with service and they are different entities...

Jeff

The confusion is 100% on your end, which you fail to see. If Tesla doesnt wants to retain ownership of the vehicle after the sale(which is what is happening withe the firmware/parts fiascos), they need to just lease the vehicles, or let prospective buyers know BEFORE the sale, and let them decide if they still want the product.

Tesla is doing this to themselves, and if I was a shareholder(I'm not, never was, and have never been short the stock), it would be a huge red flag to have a company that wasn't profitable refuse sales of a product they made. Its beyond bonkers.

 

[Canuck]

The dealership model will fix everything. Don't we all just love going to a car dealer? They're always so honest and forthright. Plus, you get the added bonus of bargaining on the price. Who doesn't like to bargain? It's like buying something in third world countries, yet we get to do it in our own neighbourhoods at our car dealerships. In fact, they even give us the same look when telling us the initial price as a vendor on a Mexican beach. It's like: here's the first price just to see if you're a sucker. If you are, you pay the sucker's price. If not, then we start to play the game -- but they make sure to get your cell number first because if you walk out, they'll be calling you daily. Oh what fun! I wish whenever I bought something I could bargain on the price. Life would be so much better. Those car dealers really know how to make people feel welcome.

Anyways, enough of the sarcasm. I'm with Jeff. Tesla needs to fix the parts problem but the dealership model is not the answer, at least in my view.

 

[Walta]

The dealership model will fix everything. Don't we all just love going to a car dealer? They're always so honest and forthright. Plus, you get the added bonus of bargaining on the price. Who doesn't like to bargain? It's like buying something in third world countries, yet we get to do it in our own neighbourhoods at our car dealerships. In fact, they even give us the same look when telling us the initial price as a vendor on a Mexican beach. It's like: here's the first price just to see if you're a sucker. If you are, you pay the sucker's price. If not, then we start to play the game -- but they make sure to get your cell number first because if you walk out, they'll be calling you daily. Oh what fun! I wish whenever I bought something I could bargain on the price. Life would be so much better. Those car dealers really know how to make people feel welcome.

Anyways, enough of the sarcasm. I'm with Jeff. Tesla needs to fix the parts problem but the dealership model is not the answer, at least in my view.

Regarding the dealership model... I am ignorant to how the whole model works. Like forinstance - I will see a ton of cars on a dealership lot... and wonder if they need to sell all of them? Or do they ship back to the OEM the left overs, to make room for the new ones, and get reimbursed? Do they have to pay up front for each car? Maybe only a percentage of the upfront cost of each vehicle?

Thanks. Just curious...