My Thoughts: AP2.5 in the shop and given an AP1 loaner

[alwaysru]

I've had my 90D AP2.5 w/ EAP (17.42) for the past week and a half, and had to take it into Tesla for some minor issues this morning and was given a AP1 car as my loaner. After a 40 minute commute this morning with AP1 (17.44), I have to say:

MAN IS AP1 Better

It follows cars with less-defined lanes, was able to turn on in instances where my AP2 car won't even give me the option, showed me cars in the other lanes (including truck graphics!), and seemed overall less likely to try to push me into other cars by hugging the lane edge.

Now, as an owner of an AP2 car, I am hoping we catch up soon - but based on timing I've seen on the forums, unless Tesla is running the better stuff in shadow mode and just not giving it to us at the moment, it seems we're a long time away.

Apart from the Autopilot - I will say my car has more comfortable seats (less bolstering?), the center console is better built, and I am sooo happy I have the glass roof instead of the pano sunroof - I love being able to see the sky from my seat as opposed to seeing a thick bar of plastic above my head.

 

[BigD0g]

Now, as an owner of an AP2 car, I am hoping we catch up soon - but based on timing I've seen on the forums, unless Tesla is running the better stuff in shadow mode and just not giving it to us at the moment, it seems we're a long time away.

I'm pretty confident we have dispelled the entire notion of shadow mode... What's happening in the cars, is they take edge case video's / pictures upon events in the car / disengagements / query reports and send them back to the mothership for further processing and being pushed back down into the dev branch. There is not 2 versions of the code running on your car. There is 1 version, and any hiccups it encounters it sends back to the mothership. I'm not sure anyone would define that as "shadow" mode.

 

[alwaysru]

I'm pretty confident we have dispelled the entire notion of shadow mode... What's happening in the cars, is they take edge case video's / pictures upon events in the car / disengagements / query reports and send them back to the mothership for further processing and being pushed back down into the dev branch. There is not 2 versions of the code running on your car. There is 1 version, and any hiccups it encounters it sends back to the mothership. I'm not sure anyone would define that as "shadow" mode.

Fair. There could be one code base watching, but with responses enabled only for certain cases. Car records what it would have done in a case where the response is currently disabled, and compares to how you responded. If a match, sends it to the mothership with an "OK", and if not, sends a pic/etc like Verygreen has been seeing? I'm not a coder - but that seems like a great way to "teach" the car what is good and what isn't.

 

[davinci2017]

No shadow nothing IMO, its just not there yet and God knows when it will get there.

Meanwhile I think the new Audi A8 has surpassed the AP1 abilities with Mobileye. 2018 is going to be the year where the competition catches up and beats Tesla in this space. It will no longer be the cool kid on the block with auto steer.

 

[pilotSteve]

Hope you get 17.44 soon..... it. is MUCH smoother and enjoyable to use. Still some warts of course (beware phantom braking with overpasses at top of hills etc.)

I too miss AP1's depiction of surrounding traffic etc. Come on Tesla, turn that feature back on!!!

 

[phaduman]

I own one of the last AP1 cars and when AP2 hw was announced just days after I took delivery of AP1, I complained/whined...but a year later, I can tell I am really happy with the predictable AP1 behavior - rock solid, and useful in the stop & go freeway commutes during weekdays and longer drives in weekends into an enjoyable experience. I take over for all other road conditions/environments. Predictability - that is the key thing here with AP1.

I am now worried how my wife would deal with AP2.x car when she finally gets her Model3 (hopefully in 6-9months - lol - even though my-tesla says Nov-Feb). I sure hope it would be at least as good as AP1, as she cannot baby-sit the AP2 cars like you guys have done in the last 1 yr.

 

[Kant.Ing]

I own one of the last AP1 cars and when AP2 hw was announced just days after I took delivery of AP1, I complained/whined...but a year later, I can tell I am really happy with the predictable AP1 behavior - rock solid, and useful in the stop & go freeway commutes during weekdays and longer drives in weekends into an enjoyable experience. I take over for all other road conditions/environments. Predictability - that is the key thing here with AP1.

I am now worried how my wife would deal with AP2.x car when she finally gets her Model3 (hopefully in 6-9months - lol - even though my-tesla says Nov-Feb). I sure hope it would be at least as good as AP1, as she cannot baby-sit the AP2 cars like you guys have done in the last 1 yr.

This is also why I am opting the dual motor version, which should be available toward the end of next year. P.S. The truck will have HW2.x with just more of everything. ;-)

 

[davidc18]

Our 2018 Odyssey does freeway auto-steering almost as well as AP 1.0. Tesla had a big lead but the breakup with Mobile Eye seems to have not worked out so well.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I've had my 90D AP2.5 w/ EAP (17.42) for the past week and a half, and had to take it into Tesla for some minor issues this morning and was given a AP1 car as my loaner. After a 40 minute commute this morning with AP1 (17.44), I have to say:

MAN IS AP1 Better

It follows cars with less-defined lanes, was able to turn on in instances where my AP2 car won't even give me the option, showed me cars in the other lanes (including truck graphics!), and seemed overall less likely to try to push me into other cars by hugging the lane edge.

Now, as an owner of an AP2 car, I am hoping we catch up soon - but based on timing I've seen on the forums, unless Tesla is running the better stuff in shadow mode and just not giving it to us at the moment, it seems we're a long time away.

Apart from the Autopilot - I will say my car has more comfortable seats (less bolstering?), the center console is better built, and I am sooo happy I have the glass roof instead of the pano sunroof - I love being able to see the sky from my seat as opposed to seeing a thick bar of plastic above my head.

Yes, this has been my experience as well. Frankly Tesla would do itself a favor by taking the AP1 cars out of the loaner fleet.

.42/.44 is miles better than the stuff they were peddling earlier this year, but still, it ain't AP1.

 

[alwaysru]

Yes, this has been my experience as well. Frankly Tesla would do itself a favor by taking the AP1 cars out of the loaner fleet.

.42/.44 is miles better than the stuff they were peddling earlier this year, but still, it ain't AP1.

Looking forward to getting my car back w/ .44 (I assume since it's in the shop they'll update me). Rode in to work again this morning with the AP1 car and it was pretty amazing again - even followed a car around some pretty curvy downhill sections. And yes, they should try to keep you with your type of car or better... and it's harsh when I am seeing the older one as better.

 

[DarkMatter]

I have an AP1 loaner right now while my AP2 car is being fixed. The AP2 car was running .42, and the AP1 car is running .44. The dashboard display is absolutely better on the AP1 car, but it's actually worse at lane centering. It seems to stay engaged (and smooth but wrong) in situations where AP2 would have disengaged. I think right now AP1 inspires more confidence because of the smoothness, but the actually of which one is better is much closer to a toss up.

Having auto wipers again is brilliant, though.

 

[oktane]

No doubt that AP1 is much more "confidence inspiring". No way those boneheads would film a YouTube video sitting in the back seat of an AP2 car going down the freeway driverless.

The AP2 still slightly wanders in the lane and curves, and worst of all, can be highly unpredictable, rendering it essentially a "toy". The lack of adjacent traffic awareness also highly degrades my confidence in its abilities.

I am fairly certain that AP2 will never perform as reliably as AP1 and we AP2 owners are SOL. I know I have already given up on it.

 

[ev-now]

Sad to hear this. I went for an AP1 CPO because I did not think they'd ever get to FSD with HW2.0. I did expect it to reach parity and eclipse AP1 assisted much quicker. Truly hope they deliver eventually.

 

[oktane]

No doubt that AP1 is much more "confidence inspiring". No way those boneheads would film a YouTube video sitting in the back seat of an AP2 car going down the freeway driverless.

The AP2 still slightly wanders in the lane and curves, and worst of all, can be highly unpredictable, rendering it essentially a "toy". The lack of adjacent traffic awareness also highly degrades my confidence in its abilities.

I am fairly certain that AP2 will never perform as reliably as AP1 and we AP2 owners are SOL. I know I have already given up on it.

Crazy to me that someone would "disagree" with my post. What exactly are you disagreeing with?

 

[Gus-MX]

Is there anything to dislike for us waiting for delivery of MX in 4 weeks and have never driven an AP1? Should I just stop reading this thread and enjoy my AP2? Thoughts?

 

[Kant.Ing]

Is there anything to dislike for us waiting for delivery of MX in 4 weeks and have never driven an AP1? Should I just stop reading this thread and enjoy my AP2? Thoughts?

Exactly, most new owners are already doing so, either purposely or unwittingly.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Crazy to me that someone would "disagree" with my post. What exactly are you disagreeing with?

I 100% agree with your post, but I can see how this comment would cause people to 'disagree' or 'thumbs down' your post:

I am fairly certain that AP2 will never perform as reliably as AP1 and we AP2 owners are SOL. I know I have already given up on it.

The problem is the rating TMC system. The "thumbs up" is 'LIKE' while the "thumbs down" is "DISAGREE" instead of "DISLIKE". Whatever they are, they should be opposites: LIKE/DISLIKE or AGREE/DISAGREE

There's a big difference between 'DISLIKE' and 'DISAGREE'

 

[tonglaji]

I've had limited experience with AP1. Overall, I think AP1 is stable, but it has its own issues. The AP1 loaners I had seemed to be unable to see a gradual curve beyond a slight crescent hill on the highway. In two separate incidences, the loaners tried to go straight over a hill and totally missed the lane lines. This was on I-85 and I was in the left most lane. I am guessing this can be attribute to the inferior computing power on the AP1 cars. My AP2 never had such issues on the same segment of road.

 

[DarkMatter]

As a side note, AP1 disabled itself in heavy rain yesterday due to "poor front radar visibility" or some similar message. I have never seen such a message with my AP2 car. It came back a few minutes later.

 

[Nitemare3219]

Our 2018 Odyssey does freeway auto-steering almost as well as AP 1.0. Tesla had a big lead but the breakup with Mobile Eye seems to have not worked out so well.

If you are referring to Honda's LKAS you are exaggerating. My wife has a 2017 CR-V with it that I've used plenty of times.

It will hold you in the middle of a lane fairly well, but throw in ANYTHING beyond the MILDEST of a curve on the highway, and it will not handle it at all. It also only works above 40 MPH, and will bitch at you to hold the steering wheel if it detects merely 10~ seconds of no input from the driver... which causes erroneous beeps. Last night it beeped at me with my hands on the wheel, just because we were on a straightaway and it was doing most of the work.

Autosteer is far superior, even in AP2, where I can go hundreds of miles with hard turns without stupid beeps (thank you Tesla for being smart enough to flash the display first), and far longer intervals between nag periods, not to mention the fact it works in stop-go traffic and will even easily navigate me down city streets if I so desire.