New 7 series bimmer v Model S

[jwg]

I have to agree that the hand gestures seem like a bizarre and slightly pointless idea. A weird party trick to show someone else in the car (when they actually work well) but I can't imagine ever using them regularly.

There is obviously a good reason BMW is releasing the new 7 series in China first, and why they now sell over 30% of their vehicles there (I don't know what % of the 7 series, but I bet it is even higher). While a lot of their new technology and luxury features don't overwhelm many of us, in China they are very powerful selling points for those wanting to impress others and show off their wealth or status. I think among the big luxury auto manufacturers there is an arms race to equip their flagship models with the greatest amount of the most unique and "impressive" features just to cater to a group of buyers that all of that stuff still wows. Right now Tesla simply can't compete in the same way and for that reason will continue to struggle in that market.

 

[thebe]

... why isn't the autopilot camera, and rear view camera, not being used as a dashcam?
^ This.

Because in a lot of states, especially in Europe, dashcams are illegal. As in 10K euros fine kind of illegal. In Austria they are illegal too. And then should it be allowed, it still comes the part that the car's software does a heck of a lot of processing on those video frames to detect oncoming headlights, taillights in front of you, road signs, speed limits, pedestrians and possibly animals, things you'll be slamming into and who knows what else to help the TACC and other sensors during high/low speed driving or cruising. Saving those frames takes processing power away from all the above and takes time. A lot of time. No time to wait for such silly things as a dashcam when vital car systems need blitzing fast processing of that video feed. Get you greams in check, it will NEVER happen to end users be able to even touch that feed. Want a dashcam, get one. Tesla will NOT provide one (legal issues, as I mentioned). And before you start bashing me, yes, I do have a dasham in both my cars.

 

[Cyclone]

Because in a lot of states, especially in Europe, dashcams are illegal. As in 10K euros fine kind of illegal. In Austria they are illegal too. And then should it be allowed, it still comes the part that the car's software does a heck of a lot of processing on those video frames to detect oncoming headlights, taillights in front of you, road signs, speed limits, pedestrians and possibly animals, things you'll be slamming into and who knows what else to help the TACC and other sensors during high/low speed driving or cruising. Saving those frames takes processing power away from all the above and takes time. A lot of time. No time to wait for such silly things as a dashcam when vital car systems need blitzing fast processing of that video feed. Get you greams in check, it will NEVER happen to end users be able to even touch that feed. Want a dashcam, get one. Tesla will NOT provide one (legal issues, as I mentioned). And before you start bashing me, yes, I do have a dasham in both my cars.

Not discounting that it's a tax on the processor to handle being a dashcam too, but the legal issues aren't a problem. In the U.S., daytime running lights are recommended, but not required. As such, Tesla lets owners turn them off if they so decide. In Canada, DRLs are mandatory. As such, the touchscreen does NOT allow for turning off the DRLs. If Tesla ever did implement a built-in dashcam option, they can cover the legal issues by forcing its disablement in certain countries. We have even seen posts that German Teslas aren't speed limited (or done so higher the U.S.-spec vehicles) while U.S. Vehicles are limited at 140 or 155 mph.

 

[thebe]

In terms of Tech, at best Tesla is behind the following features from this new BMW:
1) Laser adaptive Headlights (rumored to be coming)
2) Fancier puddle Lights (no big deal)
3) Heads up display (but I really love the Hi-Res Retina display of the Model S)
4) Lighted roof (Meh)
5) 6 aromas (Meh)

Everything else tech related is better in Model S IMHO. Either better implemented or less gimmicky.

What my 2008 BMW coupe does and I like it is the auto-dimming headlights when there is oncoming traffic or when the public lighting is enough so that I do no need to drive with the high beam on. And this is based on the same front camera video feed that I was talking in the previous post. It even nicely detet when I catch up to someone driving slower at night and automatically dims my high beams. A lot of image processing at work there.

 

[kuttakamina]

What my 2008 BMW coupe does and I like it is the auto-dimming headlights when there is oncoming traffic or when the public lighting is enough so that I do no need to drive with the high beam on. And this is based on the same front camera video feed that I was talking in the previous post. It even nicely detet when I catch up to someone driving slower at night and automatically dims my high beams. A lot of image processing at work there.

The newest Tesla does that .. only better! (It's more responsive).

 

[30seconds]

Great timing. I went an drove a Panamera GTS (with about $40k in interior upgrades) and a BMW M Grand Coupe yesterday. The gear shifting & lack of response was so incredibly annoying. There really isn't anything BMW or anyone else can do about that.

And OMG the Panamera buttons! Buttons everywhere - like they were getting them for free and didn't want to waste anything. However the leather everywhere (including leather air vent slats) with contrast stitching was really nice.

 

[Frankrb]

New 7 series............Impressive...................BUT it's still an ICE

 

[kuttakamina]

And OMG the Panamera buttons! Buttons everywhere - like they were getting them for free and didn't want to waste anything. However the leather everywhere (including leather air vent slats) with contrast stitching was really nice.

Exactly what I thought of the panamera too. Plus it looks ugly. Looks like a toad.
The interiors, minus the button madness, look plush. But I just can't get over it's ugliness. It must come with a free pair of crocs.

 

[Max*]

What my 2008 BMW coupe does and I like it is the auto-dimming headlights when there is oncoming traffic or when the public lighting is enough so that I do no need to drive with the high beam on. And this is based on the same front camera video feed that I was talking in the previous post. It even nicely detet when I catch up to someone driving slower at night and automatically dims my high beams. A lot of image processing at work there.

The newest Tesla does that .. only better! (It's more responsive).

Agreed. I was surprised at how well it works in the Tesla.

 

[JER]

Because in a lot of states, especially in Europe, dashcams are illegal.

As someone who actually lives there, I have to say you're overstating the problem. Not to mention ignoring markets like Russia where they're pretty much mandated, and broad support from the insurance industry.

The two main reasons against dashcam legality:

1. Obstructed view
2. Privacy/surveillance

One is obviously not a problem in a factory-fitted unit integrated into the mirror bracket. It's not a problem with third party installed systems or even Go-Pros with suction mounts either, so long as they're mounted sensibly and outside any mandated no-go areas.

Two is typically a consent problem, especially with recorded speech in the car but also video of other road users in a few locations - notably Switzerland. They're fine in Germany so long as you don't publish them, e.g. on social media sites. (Did anyone tell Bjørn about this?) As far as I'm aware everywhere else in Europe is fine, except the crazy place you already mentioned. Even in Austria, this is largely the result of data protection laws that had a longer reach than intended, or are being enforced beyond the point of reason.

Ideally, laws should be rewritten so consent to having your driving recording is implied when you take a vehicle on a public road, but in the meantime there's an obvious solution: Disable features when in territories where they're forbidden. With a car as well-integrated as the Model S, it will not be super-difficult to engineer a state change event in the relevant modules when the GPS reports you crossed an international border.

it still comes the part that the car's software does a heck of a lot of processing

No kidding. I mused on that in this very thread: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...-bimmer-v-Model-S/page7?p=1043832#post1043832

To repeat the key point, we don't need the feed. If it's unsuitable or a tap cannot be engineered safely, just add another camera. It will cost maybe £5 extra to make, and use the existing housing, bus and power. The rear camera is already suitable.

As for processing resource shortages, the Tegra SOCs have hardware acceleration for video compression, presumably sitting idle. Perhaps the design forbids its use without compromising other resources the Tesla sofware needs, but without talking to a developer who works on the platform, I would hesitate to say so. In any case, it wouldn't be super-difficult or especially expensive to add a dedicated media processor.

Get you greams in check, it will NEVER happen to end users be able to even touch that feed. Want a dashcam, get one. Tesla will NOT provide one (legal issues, as I mentioned). And before you start bashing me, yes, I do have a dasham in both my cars.

What a depressing outlook you have.:tongue:

Even with your most pessimistic estimates, the Model S hardware is probably closer than any other production car to built-in dashcam capability. The legal issues are moot; disable it where it's illegal, until those jurisdictions gain some sanity.

This could've easily been part of v1 Autopilot. It will be quite a head scratcher if it's not in v2. Tesla is supposed to be a leader, helping bring about a better world. So let's do that.

 

[aus]

Interesting video -
NEW 2016 BMW 7 Series Review - YouTube

Other than the obvious ICE vs EV debate, few things,

1. Tesla I still feel is more hitech. If you like technology, Tesla still wins. The gesture thing I feel is gimmicky.
2. Headlights on BMW are better.
3. The interiors of BMW are FAR better.
4. Tesla is more practical (more carrying capacity).
5. BMW is more $ than Tesla.
6. Model S looks sexier. 7 series looks like a dowdy old mans car.

What do you think of the 7 series vs Model S?

I'm impressed you called it a Bimmer and not a Beammer like most do.
The 7 is more money, but NO ONE buys them. They lease for $850-1,000/mo with minimal drive off on a car that's over $100,000.
As for the looks, that's all personal preference. Personally, I feel the MS is due for some updating soon. I know Tesla is busy with the X and 3, but this car is due for a mild refresh in the appearance department.
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