New 85kWH battery for my 2013 P85+

[ucmndd]

Tesla has a legal problem on its hands promising specific performance and SuC times without disclosing, in a clear and visible manner, that such performance and SuC times will drop with use and age.

None of the car specs related to supercharging times and speeds suggest anything other than a hypothetical max and offer nothing in the way of “promise”. The model S page describes supercharging speed as “200kw max”. That’s it.

The idea that Tesla or any automaker are on the legal hook for any manner of “promised” performance after the warranty period is goofy. ICE cars lose power with mileage too.

 

[Asterix187]

My 75D (350v) has hit 126kW before.

View attachment 499771

A new all time high last week... 128kW

 

[Christopher1]

Please stop associating the issues we have with normal battery degradation. We are not talking about degradation.

We are referring to Tesla deliberately reducing the maximum voltage that each cell can be charged to (i.e., limiting the maximum voltage of each cell from the original voltage maximum of approximately 4.2 volts to a CAPPED maximum voltage of approximately 4.1 volts or less, which has the effect of resulting in an immediate range lose of up to approximately 31 miles.

Further, we are also talking about an action taken by Tesla to reduce the maximum power at which a battery pack will charge at a supercharger and/or changing the taper rate of the charge, effectively reducing the power applied to charge the battery pack, resulting in a significant increase in the time needed to charge the battery pack.

These two issues have nothing whatsoever to do with “normal battery degradation”.

Of course it has... Do you think they restrict the batterys for fun?
I know exactly what Tesla is doing with their batterys..
Ben monitoring restrictions on 85packs several years before everybody got restrictions...
Same thing happened to my P100DieseL now..
It's so restricted that ny 100X is just at quick to 200kmt...
85 packs owners doesn't get that kind of restrictions..

 

[swegman]

I’m sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about. You make references to P100Diesel, 100X and 200kmt. Typos perhaps?

 

[TheFro]

You don't have to drive your car hard to be in #chargegate. I hardly ever supercharge—maybe 15 times in the 6 years I've owned my car. The rest of the time has been on 40A A/C line. My supercharger speeds are now gimped.

Yup, this is me as well. Glad I'm not the only one with a gimped '13 P85

 

[BrownMS]

Yup, this is me as well. Glad I'm not the only one with a gimped '13 P85

Same, I just had the battery replaced in march of 19 and soon after got less range and less charging that with the battery that went bad due to an imbalance in pack. Sucks I got a downgrade from warranty

 

[Chilam]

I was wondering what the difference is between @Chilam message alert “Maximum charging Range Limited” differs from the message I received yesterday 1/25/20 “Maximum battery charge level reduced”. I have the same symptoms on my 2012 Model S 85 with 97,200 miles. I bought the car as a CPO in 2016. It is still under the 4 year/ 50,000 mile warranty by 300 miles... I was affected by the battery gate. Yesterday at the SC I was only able to charge 40 miles in a hour. It started at 32 kw than after an hour at 3 kw! Left the supercharger at 69 miles. I scheduled an appointment next Monday. Hopefully I also will get the new 85 battery.

Probably no difference between your message and mine! In the meantime, enjoy the reduced range and don't go to close to 0mi / 0% as it might progressively get worst. Good luck and hope you get a new battery as well. Please report back!

 

[Chilam]

Same, I just had the battery replaced in march of 19 and soon after got less range and less charging that with the battery that went bad due to an imbalance in pack. Sucks I got a downgrade from warranty

I guess you have a Brown Model S as well from your username! me too! Brown P85+ w/ RFS reporting in! What kind of battery did they give you back then?

 

[BrownMS]

I guess you have a Brown Model S as well from your username! me too! Brown P85+ w/ RFS reporting in! What kind of battery did they give you back then?

same as what was in there, 85kw 400v

but immediately got 10 less miles of range and slower sc'ing

 

[Fliptrader]

Probably no difference between your message and mine! In the meantime, enjoy the reduced range and don't go to close to 0mi / 0% as it might progressively get worst. Good luck and hope you get a new battery as well. Please report back!

My appt with the Tesla Service Center is scheduled 2/13! Will keep you posted thanks man!

 

[Droschke]

@Chilam - If I may ask, how many miles did you have on your car when your pack was replaced? Thanks.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

None of the car specs related to supercharging times and speeds suggest anything other than a hypothetical max and offer nothing in the way of “promise”. The model S page describes supercharging speed as “200kw max”. That’s it.

The idea that Tesla or any automaker are on the legal hook for any manner of “promised” performance after the warranty period is goofy. ICE cars lose power with mileage too.

When I purchased my vehicle in 2013, this is what Tesla claimed on its Supercharger page:

"Tesla Superchargers are placed along well-traveled routes in North America. Nine stations are currently active, expanding to over 100 stations in 2015. They’re designed to give road trippers half a charge in about half an hour. That’s 150 miles of range with our 85 kWh battery."

It helps if you know how Tesla has changed its promises over time. Of course, Tesla was quoting it's fictional ideal range and not EPA rated range. Another fraud.

 

[ucmndd]

When I purchased my vehicle in 2013, this is what Tesla claimed on its Supercharger page:

"Tesla Superchargers are placed along well-traveled routes in North America. Nine stations are currently active, expanding to over 100 stations in 2015. They’re designed to give road trippers half a charge in about half an hour. That’s 150 miles of range with our 85 kWh battery."

It helps if you know how Tesla has changed its promises over time. Of course, Tesla was quoting it's fictional ideal range and not EPA rated range. Another fraud.

"They're designed to"
"... about half an hour"

These aren't promises nor commitments, and it would be quite the uphill battle to convince a court that they were.

 

[cpa]

"They're designed to"
"... about half an hour"

These aren't promises nor commitments, and it would be quite the uphill battle to convince a court that they were.

I am not so sure. There are implications that when a product is designed to do something, that it is warrantied to serve that particular design purpose. I cannot think of a reason why a company would state that their product is designed to do X, but we won't be allowing X. There are plenty of other locutions Tesla could have used to get across their point that would not have implied a certain standard of performance.

It seems to me that Tesla charged a full retail price for Supercharger speeds that [are] "designed to . . .give half a charge in about half an hour." If Tesla decided to walk back that statement, they should have charged less. Many people, myself included, bought into this promotional material. I highly doubt that I would have purchased a Tesla in 2014 if a 500-mile drive would require 3+ hours of charging that it takes today versus about 1 1/2 hours as recently as one year ago.

 

[TheFro]

The closest analogy I can think of is as follows:

You an early adopter of a new high performance ICE car, think Honda Civic Type-R, Ford Focus RS, etc. The manufacturer finds that some examples suffer higher than usual engine problems and/or failure rates due to some part(s) that can't handle the high stress. Rather than recall and replace the weak part(s), their solution is to recall these cars and flash a new ECU software that reduces stress on the affected part(s). Any unsold units currently built are also flashed with this ECU software. This results in an overall drop in power of the vehicle that is not only measurable but also noticeable to current owners. Current owners and any folks buying now were sold on the vehicle having the originally advertised power figures and were not told of the power drop.

What do you do?

 

[Gixx1300R]

The closest analogy I can think of is as follows:

You an early adopter of a new high performance ICE car, think Honda Civic Type-R, Ford Focus RS, etc. The manufacturer finds that some examples suffer higher than usual engine problems and/or failure rates due to some part(s) that can't handle the high stress. Rather than recall and replace the weak part(s), their solution is to recall these cars and flash a new ECU software that reduces stress on the affected part(s). Any unsold units currently built are also flashed with this ECU software. This results in an overall drop in power of the vehicle that is not only measurable but also noticeable to current owners. Current owners and any folks buying now were sold on the vehicle having the originally advertised power figures and were not told of the power drop.

What do you do?

Great analogy but you forgot that the manufacturer also installed a smaller filler neck for fuel and it takes 30 minutes of standing there to fill the fuel tank.

 

[Nico68]

what prompted the change in battery? I have a 2014 85 and i barely get 220 miles on a full charge and supercharging is super slow lately.

 

[Chilam]

@Chilam - If I may ask, how many miles did you have on your car when your pack was replaced? Thanks.

89092 miles when it gave me the all important “Maximum Battery Charge Level Reduced” error and limited my battery to ~45%. I then drove about 200 miles before it gets replaced at the SC’s first available appointment.

 

[Droschke]

89092 miles when it gave me the all important “Maximum Battery Charge Level Reduced” error and limited my battery to ~45%. I then drove about 200 miles before it gets replaced at the SC’s first available appointment.

Thanks. Based on what I have seen, you are the only one given this new 1014116-00-A pack. I was just trying to see if there is any qualifying factor to get this (new) version of battery pack. Like mileage of the car, etc. Or, it might all be random based on availability, who knows.

 

[Chilam]

guess what? Someone found this on FB group and it is looking like what you are saying. My 100% rated range of 289 miles is close to the 285 miles range in the model s standard range shown in their trip range calculator!

Wonder if this is a precursor to an impending return of an updated "standard range" Model S/X.