Newer P90DL makes 662 hp at the battery!!!

[Roadrunner13]

They also said that this was as far as they could go with this pack shape, so the next packs won't even fit into current cars.

Well, the next pack shape is to fit into the Model 3, so no big surprise there.
I wouldn't say it's the end of the road for the current pack shape though.

I fully expect more capacity upgrades in the Model S/X pack shape when they have the new cells in production at the Gigafactory.
I would take this statement to qualify 'as far as they can go with the current cells in this pack shape'.

 

[TIppy]

Well, the next pack shape is to fit into the Model 3, so no big surprise there.
I wouldn't say it's the end of the road for the current pack shape though.

I fully expect more capacity upgrades in the Model S/X pack shape when they have the new cells in production at the Gigafactory.
I would take this statement to qualify 'as far as they can go with the current cells in this pack shape'.

Tesla, as usual, has not revealed many details about the new 100 kWh battery except to say it is close to the theoretical maximum power that can be squeezed into the space available in the Model S and Model X battery chassis.

 

[Pollux]

Nope Tesla is still the best as far as factory upgrades etc.
You just can not count on upgrading to a larger battery in the future as many have thought . So for me it will always be a short term car.
Maybe in the future there will be aftermarket batteries for upgrades.
It does decrease the value of current cars if the batteries can't be upgraded.

Thank you, @vip gts

Alan

 

[Pollux]

I believe they've already said not. Planned obsolescence. They won't even sell you the parts so you could have it done yourself. That only leaves obtaining parts from salvage cars.

Hi, @TIppy,

IMHO, you are being unfair to use the term "planned obsolescence". Tesla's current upgrade behavior is at a minimum no worse than any other automobile vendor's, and I don't think that anyone views current autos as being planned for obsolescence. If anything, the useful lifetime of an automobile keeps increasing.

Given that Tesla also DOES make upgrades available for certain configurations and at certain times... well, then Tesla is charting new territory.

Keep in mind that there's a huge matrix to fill out and test when a vendor supports older equipment and/or older software, and that this cost is far from trivial, and further can represent a serious drag on core engineering innovation. Hard engineering choices and business choices must get made to support customers further and further back in time. And, right now, Tesla is innovating at a furious clip, so "long time" may turn into a surprisingly small amount of time.

Alan

P.S. Even "selling parts" isn't a zero-cost endeavor.

 

[TIppy]

Well, the next pack shape is to fit into the Model 3, so no big surprise there.
I wouldn't say it's the end of the road for the current pack shape though.

I fully expect more capacity upgrades in the Model S/X pack shape when they have the new cells in production at the Gigafactory.
I would take this statement to qualify 'as far as they can go with the current cells in this pack shape'.

Pencils are down, so those are the current packs. The next packs will be for the model s.

 

[TIppy]

Hi, @TIppy,

IMHO, you are being unfair to use the term "planned obsolescence". Tesla's current upgrade behavior is at a minimum no worse than any other automobile vendor's, and I don't think that anyone views current autos as being planned for obsolescence. If anything, the useful lifetime of an automobile keeps increasing.

Given that Tesla also DOES make upgrades available for certain configurations and at certain times... well, then Tesla is charting new territory.

Keep in mind that there's a huge matrix to fill out and test when a vendor supports older equipment and/or older software, and that this cost is far from trivial, and further can represent a serious drag on core engineering innovation. Hard engineering choices and business choices must get made to support customers further and further back in time. And, right now, Tesla is innovating at a furious clip, so "long time" may turn into a surprisingly small amount of time.

Alan

P.S. Even "selling parts" isn't a zero-cost endeavor.

Didn't say they were any worse. New sheet metal comes out every five years so that you'll dump that obviously old car you have for a new one.
How does it cost them more to sell it to a p85d owner than a p90d owner?

BMW will sell you a new engine if you want one, or parts there of.

 

[TIppy]

I think it's kind of crappy that they won't sell parts to people who have purchased totaled vehicles. A lot of these cars get totaled because it's so expensive to get the sheet metal repaired. If somebody has the expertise and wants to spend the time to return one of these to the road, why not?

 

[Roadrunner13]

Tesla, as usual, has not revealed many details about the new 100 kWh battery except to say it is close to the theoretical maximum power that can be squeezed into the space available in the Model S and Model X battery chassis.

...with the current battery technology (18650 battery cells).

In the Gigafactory opening press conference, this is what was said by Elon:

"Musk noted that once the 21-70s were in mass production, they could find their way into existing Tesla car battery packs for the Model S and X as well as the Powerwall."

Quoted from:
Tesla Gigafactory tour roundup and tidbits: ‘This is the coolest factory in the world’

To continue the range race, that's what Tesla will need to do if they want a model S 125D(?) with more range than all competition on the current platform. They won't be re-designing the S/X platform anytime soon, so this pack shape/size...is here to stay for some years!

BTW, that's how they doubled the range of the roadster...new cells, same pack size...for a price!

 

[lolachampcar]

I can understand Tesla's concern on totaled cars. You see how the world is just looking to jump on battery fires. One gal/guy mucking around with a salvage (swimmer) car resulting in a failure and Tesla takes the black eye. Can you imagine if one of those cars/accidents involved AP? The world would come crashing down.

I'm not saying its right; I'm just saying I can understand the position.

 

[TIppy]

...with the current battery technology (18650 battery cells).

In the Gigafactory opening press conference, this is what was said by Elon:

"Musk noted that once the 21-70s were in mass production, they could find their way into existing Tesla car battery packs for the Model S and X as well as the Powerwall."

Quoted from:
Tesla Gigafactory tour roundup and tidbits: ‘This is the coolest factory in the world’

To continue the range race, that's what Tesla will need to do if they want a model S 125D(?) with more range than all competition on the current platform. They won't be re-designing the S/X platform anytime soon, so this pack shape/size...is here to stay for some years!

BTW, that's how they doubled the range of the roadster...new cells, same pack size...for a price!

That's how they did it with the p100d, also. Same pack size different packing. But they remarked it was the end of the line for this chassis, not this chassis with these cells. The 2170 cells will indeed be in the model s pack, but probably a redesigned one. They could make some minor adjustment that would allow a new pack design to fit, but would preclude existing vehicles.
Musk said you should wait until later to update to a higher capacity pack, too. Not everything he says comes to pass.

 

[TIppy]

I can understand Tesla's concern on totaled cars. You see how the world is just looking to jump on battery fires. One gal/guy mucking around with a salvage (swimmer) car resulting in a failure and Tesla takes the black eye. Can you imagine if one of those cars/accidents involved AP? The world would come crashing down.

I'm not saying its right; I'm just saying I can understand the position.

All manufactures could make similar claims. Tesla isn't the only vehicle with autopilot.

They haven't stopped it. Ingineer says he supports a fleet of 60 salvaged vehicles with his own server that emulates tesla's mother ship server. So what are they really accomplishing other than being obstructive?

 

[NSX1992]

Yesterday I and two other Tesla owners showed our cars for five hours in Oxnard at an Electric Car Show in conjunction with National Drive Electric Week. We had to stay by our Teslas and answer questions from interested persons and expound the benefits of electric vehicles. I had fun giving rides to the public with summons. Even observers were startled seeing my Tesla moving without a driver. I received many compliments on my red color and my chrome aftermarket grill. The local channel played a video of my Tesla driving itself and my comments on how it was done.

I know P85DEE will not understand how I can recommend to the public to buy a Tesla as the best car made and at the same time express my concerns with the original 691 HP for the P85D and 10.9 for P90DL v1. I still think Tesla has made improvements by now stating the actual HP on their site and omitting any reference to 1/4 mile times that an owner could not obtain.

 

[P85DEE]

Good info. Thanks.
Regarding the P85DL owners not being able to upgrade to 100kw is surprising. With that thought, I am (P90DL V1) planning on staying with what I have ( hopefully they fix the range issue ) until I need a new battery. The expectation being that when I buy a future battery option, it will be a better version 90kw - but not require a huge retrofit cost. Does anyone know how much it costs to replace your 85kw or 90kw straight up?
At the moment there are VERY few cars on the road that the P90DL cannot beat 0-60 which is where I live. Racing above those speeds is only going to get me arrested. I do not see a good return on investment going to 100kw for $20K .

Yeah and that does bother me because having the ability to upgrade at some point in the future was one of the things I factored in when buying my car. It's just another example of Elon's mouth getting ahead of reality.

More like your hopes and dreams getting ahead of reality.

 

[P85DEE]

Yesterday I and two other Tesla owners showed our cars for five hours in Oxnard at an Electric Car Show in conjunction with National Drive Electric Week. We had to stay by our Teslas and answer questions from interested persons and expound the benefits of electric vehicles. I had fun giving rides to the public with summons. Even observers were startled seeing my Tesla moving without a driver. I received many compliments on my red color and my chrome aftermarket grill. The local channel played a video of my Tesla driving itself and my comments on how it was done.

I know P85DEE will not understand how I can recommend to the public to buy a Tesla as the best car made and at the same time express my concerns with the original 691 HP for the P85D and 10.9 for P90DL v1. I still think Tesla has made improvements by now stating the actual HP on their site and omitting any reference to 1/4 mile times that an owner could not obtain.

Don't call me out unless you want me to respond.

Some of you guys have gone well beyond "expressing your concerns". That description is laughable.

Some of you guys have gone on to outright accusations of fraud and deceit on the part of Tesla.

You know it and I know it.

Acknowledge that and you "might" make some headway. But until then, you aren't talking about a blessed thing.

Hypocrites. And yeah, I said it.

Until you are ready to acknowledge that, I don't care how many rides you give.

 

[vip gts]

Don't call me out unless you want me to respond.

Some of you guys have gone well beyond "expressing your concerns". That description is laughable.

Some of you guys have gone on to outright accusations of fraud and deceit on the part of Tesla.

You know it and I know it.

Acknowledge that and you "might" make some headway. But until then, you aren't talking about a blessed thing.

Hypocrites. And yeah, I said it.

Until you are ready to acknowledge that, I don't care how many rides you give.

Your responses border on disturbing.

 

[P85DEE]

Your responses border on disturbing.

Good.

They're intended to be disturbing to those who would make totally unfounded allegations of deceit.

 

[fiksegts]

I'm with you 100%.... a P90DL v1 will never in the 10's at a drag strip, Tesla has obviously accepted this, no mention of 1/4 mile times any more.....

I know P85DEE will not understand how I can recommend to the public to buy a Tesla as the best car made and at the same time express my concerns with the original 691 HP for the P85D and 10.9 for P90DL v1. I still think Tesla has made improvements by now stating the actual HP on their site and omitting any reference to 1/4 mile times that an owner could not obtain.

 

[P85DEE]

Tesla: "We lied for the better part of a year about 10.9. In fact we lied about it for more than a year. But we'll just let it blow over by being good and not mentioning it again, and hope nobody sues after our standing behind that lie and repeating it for months."

Yeah, right.

 

[fiksegts]

facts are facts, no P90DL V1 ever ran 10.9 at a drag strip
P90DL V2 cars (107x battery) with a documented extra 50-60HP have trouble hitting the 10.99 mark
Tesla has since stopped quoting 1/4 mile times

 

[P85DEE]

No stripped P90D V1 with Ludicrous has ever reported an attempt.

And that's a fact too.

Tesla lying about 10.9 for well over 12 months straight, continuing to lie about it and running the legal risk of getting caught in such a lie?

And the severe legal ramifications associated with that?

Anyone in here is free to believe that, and of course there are those, and will always be those, who believe in conspiracy theories, the tripartite commission, Roswell, Area 51, alien abductions, etc.

However I don't. And I'm simply saying to those who do, well feel free to do so, but don't get upset when I don't believe in conspiracy theories.