Newer P90DL makes 662 hp at the battery!!!

[Bill D]

What I'd love to see is some CAN data plotted to show how much of this power gain is coming from reduced voltage sag.

Yes, that would be interesting. Also, the CAN logger I borrowed from lolachampcar 3 months ago also reported precise battery temperature. Old Man Mike's charts show that the new P90DL gains much more from Max Battery, which makes me wonder if they run the battery hotter.

 

[ggnykk]

Personal experience; very rarely have I seen cars actually meet the performance specs listed by manufacturers. To say nothing about what is said in the media. This is especially true with quarter mile times. It is simply because there are a lot of factors that come into play in the real world. I think a large part of the problem we have here is that we all hold Tesla to a higher standard than we do other manufacturers. In the above quote, almost any other manufacturer would end at the third line, cars don't meet those claims. The fact that Tesla, one, has the capability to make changes after the car leaves the factory and, two, actively makes improvements to the car components and manufacturing process to improve their product should be celebrated.

Please, lets try not to be so negative on this process.

Being extremely familiar with supercar/ hypercar real world performance, I agree with you. Almost all car manufacturer exaggerate their performance in some shape or form (0-60 mph, 0-100 mph, 1/4 mile, top speed, horsepower number etc). Porsche is pretty much the only good manufacturer out there that consistently under-promise and over-deliver their performance specs.

As for other manufacturers, 0-60 mph time is almost certainly the best run out of 40 runs in the absolutely best condition. You definitely won't get that claimed 0-60 number yourself. Claim of 200+ mph? Forget it. If they claim 205 mph, the car most likely do 197 mph max in real world. Ferrari is the worst manufacturer out there now, they strictly NOT allow any magazine or third party to instrument test their new cars independently. In few occasion, they only allow test of their car by outsider (like Motor Trend) at their own Ferrari Fiorano track under close supervision by their own team. Motor Trend was allowed to conduct 0-60 mph and 1/4 mile on the DOWNHILL section of the track. Not even kidding. When MT asks Ferrari to do the same tests uphill so they can average out the downhill numbers, Ferrari strictly said no. So that gives a lot of credibility about all those supercar performance specs, huh?

 

[P85DEE]

I don't think reaction time in any drag strip is related to "skill". I thought most people just start releasing the brake at the last yellow light (right before the green light). So that when the car starts moving, it would roughly match the green light time. A true test of reaction time is when there are no indication on when the green lights will come, and it just pop up suddenly.

Reaction time, timing your start most certainly involves skill.

If you are not good at cutting a good light, then you will have very limited success in drag racing.

And you certainly will not win many heads up races against cars which are just as powerful and just as fast, if not more powerful and fast, as your own.

Indeed, you may even struggle against cars which are slower than yours if you are not skilled at cutting a good light.

Lastly, all drag strip time already accounted for reaction time anyway. Having a super fast or super slow reaction time won't affect your car's time in any shape or form.

Yes, I'm fully aware of that, and I never said that it would.

What I said was that reaction time can and does often times influence the outcome of a drag race.

"... while it doesn't effect ET, can and often times does affect the outcome."

When people run for records, or are running time trials, as has already been mentioned in here, that is quite different from racing.

If you're competing against another car, well then you'd best believe that your reaction time matters.......and a big part of the reason why it does is because it doesn't influence your ET.

So because it doesn't, any advantage you can get against your competitor in the form of reaction time, preferably a good reaction time, preferably one which is better than his, which yes, does involve skill,.. will in effect give you a head start against him.

Fail to do so, i.e. possess poor skills at cutting a good light, and have a slow reaction time, and you will at some point in the race, end up chasing him.

However if you're running a time trial, or trying for a new record, you can sit at the light until the cows come home........because you're not racing anyone else, and because again, doing so will not influence your ET.

Hope that explains it.

.... You definitely won't get that claimed 0-60 number yourself. ..

Huh????

There are plenty of people right in here who have run the 0-60 spec.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Ferrari is the worst manufacturer out there now, they strictly NOT allow any magazine or third party to instrument test their new cars independently. In few occasion, they only allow test of their car by outsider (like Motor Trend) at their own Ferrari Fiorano track under closer supervision by their own team. Motor Trend was allowed to conduct 0-60 mph and 1/4 mile on the DOWNHILL section of the track. Not even kidding. When MT asks Ferrari to do the same tests uphill so they can average out the downhill numbers, Ferrari strictly said no. So that gives a lot of credibility about all those supercar performance specs, huh?

This article pretty much covers Ferrari's practice of using heavily rigged press cars and controlling the test process (the journalist in question was banned from ever reviewing Ferraris because of the article):
http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins

However, rigged press cars are so common that they have a term for it: "ringers" (mentioned in the comments of both the article before and the more general article below about press cars). Although other automakers don't go to the same extremes as Ferrari in controlling the testing process.
The Truth About Press Cars

There was some speculation that the Motor Trend car was a ringer, but so far no evidence.

 

[AWDtsla]

Personal experience; very rarely have I seen cars actually meet the performance specs listed by manufacturers. To say nothing about what is said in the media. This is especially true with quarter mile times. It is simply because there are a lot of factors that come into play in the real world. I think a large part of the problem we have here is that we all hold Tesla to a higher standard than we do other manufacturers. In the above quote, almost any other manufacturer would end at the third line, cars don't meet those claims. The fact that Tesla, one, has the capability to make changes after the car leaves the factory and, two, actively makes improvements to the car components and manufacturing process to improve their product should be celebrated.

Please, lets try not to be so negative on this process.

You must live in a different universe that I do. Other than VW, why don't you list all these car manufacturers that don't meet their specs?

 

[ggnykk]

There is a supercharger about 5 miles from the track. I plan to charge to 100% and get on the track as soon as I can. I should be able to make 4-5 passes before I drop below 90%




Any event where I can drive home is a good event!

Drive slow from supercharger to the track, to save energy

Hopefully, it will be a 510 kw run with 10.9 second 1/4 mile. Please show us the time slip and Powertool number.

 

[sorka]

There was some speculation that the Motor Trend car was a ringer, but so far no evidence.

There was evidence which they even published. 10.9 @ 122 MPH

 

[stopcrazypp]

There was evidence which they even published. 10.9 @ 122 MPH

There are other theories (already mentioned in various threads) that can account for that:
1) Motor Trend altitude/temperature adjustment (which was never really confirmed by Motor Trend)
2) Optimal conditions (I believe Motor Trend mentioned all test runs were done with a full charge, while not necessarily everyone or maybe even no-one trying to reproduce it did it at 100% SOC or have the means to test it at that SOC)
3) advanced software that is about to be released (the Motor Trend car had launch control, so it definitely had more advanced software than available to the public at the time of publishing)

A ringer, perhaps using the supposedly new more powerful battery released now, is but one theory out of those.

 

[CraZ8]

It will be interesting if the early P90Ds as well as the P85DLs get a boost from an over the air update. Which brings up my question of how many people does this effect? Does anyone know the numbers or percentages of P85D upgrade and p90D ludicrous vs sales for all Teslas in general? Just curious

 

[ArtInCT]

Can someone please define what is the V2 or Version 2 P90DL? Mine is a late February 2016 build delivered in very early March 2016. My battery pack is 1071394-00-A. I am on firmware 2.20.30 now for the last month.

 

[St Charles]

You must live in a different universe that I do. Other than VW, why don't you list all these car manufacturers that don't meet their specs?

Lol, I'm not gonna sit here and waste yours and my time trying to explain every single time I saw someone get disappointed in their performance at a drag strip. Suffice to say, it happens all the time. That is why I said "in my personal experience" because it was exactly that, My personal experience. If you don't want to accept that I'm not going to make you.

I knew this would rustle some jimmies. Honestly, to meet the published times in the real world you would need perfect track conditions and a density altitude of 0ft. I have personally only observed these conditions 2 or 3 times in my life. And only because I went out of my way and spent a lot of money at track rentals.

Now, I'm going to spout off my personal opinion again so CAUTION:
If you buy a car based on a performance claim from the manufacturer, you're gonna have a bad time. I submit the previous 24 pages as evidence.

 

[tstafford]

It will be interesting if the early P90Ds as well as the P85DLs get a boost from an over the air update. Which brings up my question of how many people does this effect? Does anyone know the numbers or percentages of P85D upgrade and p90D ludicrous vs sales for all Teslas in general? Just curious

I think lots of us are wondering this but are also privately doubtful that the P85DL is ever going to see this upgrade. As an owner of a P85DL I'm not that surprised by this. I think they tossed us a half priced bone to make the car really quick but not the quickest car on the road. That's fine and they warned us at the time that it wouldn't match the P90DL specs.

I feel for the early P90DL owners. I nearly cancelled my P85D order as it had just entered production when the P90DL was announced. I would be pretty irritated if I had done that and the car wasn't able to benefit from this software update.

 

[P85DEE]

I think lots of us are wondering this but are also privately doubtful that the P85DL is ever going to see this upgrade. As an owner of a P85DL I'm not that surprised by this. I think they tossed us a half priced bone to make the car really quick but not the quickest car on the road. That's fine and they warned us at the time that it wouldn't match the P90DL specs.

I feel for the early P90DL owners. I nearly cancelled my P85D order as it had just entered production when the P90DL was announced. I would be pretty irritated if I had done that and the car wasn't able to benefit from this software update.

I'm with you on the above.

If a rising tide lifts all boats, and it turns out that we do get a taste, then great.

But for us it would be like getting two desserts with an already amazing meal.

11.2 second quarter mile capabilitiy, that's what the P85D has, is huge.

 

[Alex(AUS)]

My somewhat experienced opinion is simple. You are not really able to do a 10.9 with the current power level and 118-119mph ... There is numerous evidence of that. What makes that evidence figuratively 10 fold of other ice cars is the model s is super efficient at launching consistently (quickly), is not significantly affected by ambient temperatures (heated / cooled battery) and is not significantly affected by barometric pressures/ altitude changes. Therefore, the many passes that have been made hold a ton of evidence. Furthermore, some of those have been made by seasoned drag racers. The car really needs 2-3mph more or around 30-50kw and 121 /122mph to run an actual (advertised) 10. Hence this update is about to show that (and is still advertised as a 10.9 car). Otherwise wouldnt it become a 10.6 claim under the same logic (ie one in a million with cyclone behind you)

Elon kept mentioning that we the model s /x owners are those responsible for the success of tesla and we should be thanked for that. Honestly, it is an awesome car and all the thanks we would ever need is to meet the (awesome advertised) claims ...

 

[IBX1]

I'm with you on the above.

If a rising tide lifts all boats, and it turns out that we do get a taste, then great.

But for us it would be like getting two desserts with an already amazing meal.

11.2 second quarter mile capabilitiy, that's what the P85D has, is huge.

I took delivery of a brand new P90DL 2 weeks ago and have about 1200 miles on it thus far. One thing that has shocked me and my "guests" has been not how quick it gets to 60MPH (boring) but how fast it hits 100 or 120 the handful of times each I've done it. I don't have any hardware to gauge it, but it hits those numbers definitely faster than I imagined. It definitely overshadowed the 0-60 experience for me. I'm on first day of vacay today, but next week I will buy whatever hardware you people recommend and start testing when I get back next week.

 

[IBX1]

One more thing that goes along with this is that obviously passing on the highway is much better than I had anticipated. I whipped, and I do mean WHIPPED around a lime green Hellcat Challenger on 540 in Raleigh the other day when we were probably at about the 75-80 MPH range. He had been rolling up on me blowing his exhaust out at me a handful of times on Capital Blvd and I got excited when we both got on 540 and I floored it around him, then dusted him. Good times

 

[St Charles]

Bad news, everybody.

The track had an issue with their timing system and cancelled everything for the day. It doesn't look like I'll get any runs in.

I'm hanging out for a bit just in case they want a test car but it's not looking good.

 

[ERP]

Honestly, to meet the published times in the real world you would need perfect track conditions and a density altitude of 0ft.

A low density altitude is what's required to maximize ICE performance. But for our electrics you want a high density altitude. At Bandimere outside Denver, I've seen conditions put the number over 10k ft.

 

[St Charles]

A low density altitude is what's required to maximize ICE performance. But for our electrics you want a high density altitude. At Bandimere outside Denver, I've seen conditions put the number over 10k ft.

You are absolutely correct. My context was in regards to ICE cars as well.

 

[P85DEE]

Bad news, everybody.

The track had an issue with their timing system and cancelled everything for the day. It doesn't look like I'll get any runs in.

I'm hanging out for a bit just in case they want a test car but it's not looking good.

Thanks for the update.

My somewhat experienced opinion is simple. You are not really able to do a 10.9 with the current power level and 118-119mph ... There is numerous evidence of that. What makes that evidence figuratively 10 fold of other ice cars is the model s is super efficient at launching consistently (quickly), is not significantly affected by ambient temperatures (heated / cooled battery) and is not significantly affected by barometric pressures/ altitude changes. Therefore, the many passes that have been made hold a ton of evidence. Furthermore, some of those have been made by seasoned drag racers. The car really needs 2-3mph more or around 30-50kw and 121 /122mph to run an actual (advertised) 10. Hence this update is about to show that (and is still advertised as a 10.9 car). Otherwise wouldnt it become a 10.6 claim under the same logic (ie one in a million with cyclone behind you)

Elon kept mentioning that we the model s /x owners are those responsible for the success of tesla and we should be thanked for that. Honestly, it is an awesome car and all the thanks we would ever need is to meet the (awesome advertised) claims ...

I suspect that you're right on all counts.

11.1 is probably the low end for the P85D and P90D. But one may eventually see a fluke run where all the stars line up and a 10.999 comes at the 456KW power level, but it that happens, it will possibly have to come in a P85D as the P90D is probably going to move upward from that power level.

But to the P90D, well, after seeing the initial reports of 11.4-11.5 for the P90D when it was first introduced, I never expected to see 11.1516 for it, and certainly not at 116.7mph.

But that is the current P90D record at the "old" power level, leaving the car just 0.1517 seconds away from the 10.9s.

Back in November of 2015, many, myself included, never expected the car to get this close to the 10.9 spec after seeing those 11.4s and 11.5s for it.

Will someone, somewhere, be able to knock that last 0.1517 seconds off the current record, and at the 456KW power level?

Who knows? But just a 6 months before that 11.1516 went up, I can recall a time when 11.4 for the P90D was the number.