NIssan Leaf is a Better Car Than the Tesla Model 3?

[M3BlueGeorgia]

So the OP must be "tomasrey88" on the Tesla Model 3 forum?
So duplicating my response from there...

Not remotely comparable. Model 3 is in an entirely different class.

The use of the term "vampire drain" is very trollish. Without applications and without sentry mode, a parked Model 3 will use about 2 miles of range per day keeping the car's facilities alive. That's really trivial.
The failure of the Nissan to do this says a lot (negatively) about its obsolete architecture.

The use of "fanboy" is insulting and trollish.

 

[MrMassTransit]

I came from a 2017 Leaf (107 mile version). I realize this thread is talking about the 2019 higher range model, but the biggest negative in my mind is the lack of active battery conditioning. That applies primarily to cooling, but also the ability to heat the battery in very cold conditions before fast charging. From my perspective, the biggest positive is no vampire drain, which is significant in use cases like my own where I only drive 1-2 days out of a week.

For around town driving the Leaf is great, but for road trips that involve multiple charging stops in a day, the lack of active cooling makes a huge difference. With my 2017 Leaf, after the first two charging stops, the battery was towards the top end of its temperature range and the rate of charge began to be limited (and I imagine that the temperature was not optimal for the battery). Now with the 2019 higher range, you will get twice as far between charging stops, but I definitely want the ability to make 3-4 stops in a day if I need to. That's a very rare occurrence, but I wanted a car I could road trip in (I have an SR+ and the range works fine for my needs).

Is the Leaf still a good car for some? Absolutely. If you can get higher incentives on the Leaf and pay substantially less than a Model 3, consider it. I have a friend who has the base range for daily commuting and it works great for him. If you need to lease, I'm sure the lease deals are substantially better than a Model 3. I have no idea what the residual values on the 2019 Leafs will end up being, but for the earlier Leafs they were terrible, so leasing may even be the better option.

All I'd encourage people to do is drive a Model 3 before they purchase a higher range Leaf (the lower range is just in a different price bracket, so not really a competitor from my perspective). if you've driven both and the Leaf is better for your needs, by all means, go for it.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

So the OP must be "tomasrey88" on the Tesla Model 3 forum?
So duplicating my response from there...

Not remotely comparable. Model 3 is in an entirely different class.

The use of the term "vampire drain" is very trollish. Without applications and without sentry mode, a parked Model 3 will use about 2 miles of range per day keeping the car's facilities alive. That's really trivial.
The failure of the Nissan to do this says a lot (negatively) about its obsolete architecture.

The use of "fanboy" is insulting and trollish.

To me the advantage of the Leaf is if someone wants a relatively low mileage used car for a shortish daily commute. They can get a Leaf for under $10K.

 

[MrMassTransit]

To me the advantage of the Leaf is if someone wants a relatively low mileage used car for a shortish daily commute. They can get a Leaf for under $10K.

I'll agree that the advantage of the Leaf is price. Even if they don't go the used route, there are incentives available to Leaf purchasers that are not available to Model 3 purchasers. For one, the full tax credit is still available. Additionally, some utilities have a deal that offers a significant discount on the pricing of Leafs or Bolts. When I picked up my 2017 Leaf, I received the $7.5k credit and $10k off the base price. I was very happy with that - plus no sales tax in DC on any EV purchase. I sold the car two months ago for $15k with less than 2,000 miles on it.

That $10k off is now $5k for new Leafs, I believe. Here's an example from my local utility, but a number of utilities offer the same program:

https://www.pepco.com/SmartEnergy/InnovationTechnology/Documents/Q3 Fleetail Onepager_PEPCO.PDF

IMO, if comparing a $35k or $40k Model 3 against a Leaf of the same price, the Model 3 is head and shoulders above the Leaf. But there just seem to be substantial discounts available on the Leaf that might make sense for the right use cases. I'm personally very happy with the switch to Tesla and wouldn't consider going back.

 

[9erDog]

I owned a 2012 Leaf and really liked it. Was sad that the battery had to be replaced at 62500 miles due to degradation. Was also sad to sell it when I bought the Model 3. The Leaf was a nice BEV for a commute only vehicle but battery degradation and no OTA updates as well as getting fast DC charging that gave me 70 miles in a half hour made me look elsewhere. By the way Nissan asked that you bring it in for routine maintenance and charged similar costs to an ICE for those services.

I love Love LOVE my Model 3. I’ll see about battery degradation but there is a great deal of evidence that I won’t have to worry about that. I can routinely charge 23 miles per hour on Level 2 and get to 80% full in a half hour with Supercharging. And I have a better car now than when I picked it up last summer! There is no comparison. The Model 3 is the better car.

 

[lozza]

I had a Gen 1 Leaf. It's what got me into EVs.

The newL is actually a heavy facelift of the Gen 1 ... Very similar tech, even down to motors, and much of the rest of the drivetrain.

I think the charge speed and battery conditioning tip the scales in favor of the 3.

Also efficiency... The Leaf likes the highways even less than a Bolt

 

[ElectricLee]

But there just seem to be substantial discounts available on the Leaf that might make sense for the right use cases. I'm personally very happy with the switch to Tesla and wouldn't consider going back.

Yes, when smart people who switch to the Model 3, the value of the Leap Plus is not worth it. The dealers are faced with “No one wants to buy these so I need a 5K dealer discount” Nissan is wondering what went wrong, i guess in order for use to sell these we need to price them at below cost and take more profits from our ICE cars.

 

[ElectricLee]

By the way Nissan asked that you bring it in for routine maintenance and charged similar costs to an ICE for those services.

Since it did not have Cellular, it needed to collect the data from the dealers and that is how they would find out about the batteries. Slow understanding and slower resolution for its currently sold Leaf’s.

 

[MoHazee4]

Fair points all around.

Now that the 3, comes with EAP (tacc) - some of you make a fair point about the 3 being the overall best value. However, I stand firm on my position about Tesla's quality & customer service issues.

(I must back peddle on my original position..a bit)--- Nissan dealerships around here have incentives (when combined with the $7,500) - knock off about $10,000 from the Leaf's price tag.

Considering battery degradation -- as long as the manufacturer honors their warranty, this isn't a deal breaker.

 

[electrictorque]

Former Leaf owner here. The Leaf is a great car! Ugly as heck -- but, a great car! The new one is still ugly.

Now a M3 owner - first new car evaar. Love it -- but, the Leaf is an awesome car...here's why

Where the Leaf beats the Tesla

• Overall price
• Price for options
• Warranty & handing of issues
• Stable pricing
• Value

Where Tesla beats the Leaf

• Style & performance
• Technology
• Range

Tesla's poor customer service -- poor handling of their warranty (recently updated) -- and constant price adjustments .... has taken some of the Luster off my Tesla, and from what I have read -- other people too.

The Leaf might not be as dope as the Tesla -- but, Nissan sure is making a quality product they stand behind, for a good price too. All issues we had with our Leaf were handled with minimal hassle.

My experience with Tesla customer service has been fenomenal.

 

[posity]

Massive CarMax near us (500 cars???). Was driving by a few months ago and commented to my wife on the number of Leafs on the lot.
She said, "Which one is the Leaf?"
I said, "Looks like a pile of dog doo."
She said, immediately, "Oh, I see them..."

PS - I didn't say 'doo'

 

[MoHazee4]

My experience with Tesla customer service has been fenomenal.

Just you wait....I thought the same thing, I'm serious. Everything was peachy, Until it wasn't and their behavior changed. There are countless other users who've reported the same experience as myself.

 

[ElectricLee]

Just you wait....I thought the same thing, I'm serious. Everything was peachy, Until it wasn't and their behavior changed. There are countless other users who've reported the same experience as myself.

Because the local “John Smith Nissan” Dealership may have dozen of complaints and dozen of hero moments. Dealership fold everyday and others take over in its place. In my area the Kia dealership changed names and or closed down. So there are few National levels of complaints and those who fail locally are dealt with closures as fitting to the local customer service problems. The dealers that are running very well, have good business and thrive. On balance Nissan is just like Tesla in terms of some pockets and great service and the bad service. Only Tesla has a national service, So the same 100 problems at 1000 Nissan dealership is NOT Noticed compared to the SAME 100 problems at 1 National Tesla Service (even at 100 Tesla Service Station). Some level of understanding is needed.

 

[Words of HABIT]

The old Nissan Leaf was a glorified golf cart. However, the new Nissan Leaf has a 226 mile battery and ProPilot to compete with Tesla's base model with Autopilot (I am NOT comparing the Nissan Leaf with the higher trim Model 3s). In addition, there are many features on the new Nissan Leaf that are better than the Tesla Model 3; relaxing ePedal driving (when you lift your foot off the "gas" pedal, the car stops) and much smoother ride, just to name a few. At the same price point, the new Nissan Leaf is a better car than the Tesla Model 3?

The following is an honest video comparison review of the Nissan Leaf vs the Tesla Model 3. This is NOT a Tesla fan boy review. I own both vehicles and I'm NOT going to sell either one of them....

With a Tesla, you have the option to set the creep mode to ON or OFF. With the Leaf creep mode is always OFF. I'm surprised you would not know this owning an M3. I haven't driven a Leaf, however own an M3 and it is the best car I have ever owned by a long shot, absolutely no comparison. I love it.

 

[ElectricLee]

With a Tesla, you have the option to set the creep mode to ON or OFF. With the Leaf creep mode is always OFF. I'm surprised you would not know this owning an M3. I haven't driven a Leaf, however own an M3 and it is the best car I have ever owned by a long shot, absolutely no comparison. I love it.

Good information. Tesla improves everyday. Nissan Leaf is only as smart as the day it leaves the factory floor.

 

[chronopc]

The Leaf is definitely better. That's what in the US Nissan sold an impressive 951 Leafs during April while Tesla only sold 10,050 3s.

New Updates: Monthly Plug-In EV Sales Scorecard: April 2019

 

[sperkin]

Just got home from Vegas. Left the hotel at 100% and made it home at 10%. None stop in under 4 hours.

Not sure if a Leaf or any other EV can do that.

 

[sperkin]

So the OP must be "tomasrey88" on the Tesla Model 3 forum?
So duplicating my response from there...

Not remotely comparable. Model 3 is in an entirely different class.

The use of the term "vampire drain" is very trollish. Without applications and without sentry mode, a parked Model 3 will use about 2 miles of range per day keeping the car's facilities alive. That's really trivial.
The failure of the Nissan to do this says a lot (negatively) about its obsolete architecture.

The use of "fanboy" is insulting and trollish.

Agree, vampire drain doesn’t effect the car much.

I left on a 8 days cruise at 259 miles and came back at 254 miles. I didn’t check the app and the car was underground parking so it was probably in deep sleep.

 

[bradbissell]

I’ve owned both. M3 is better, hands down.

 

[ammulder]

She said, "Which one is the Leaf?"
I said, "Looks like a pile of dog doo."
She said, immediately, "Oh, I see them..."

PS - I didn't say 'doo'

I know, it’s just not polite to say ‘dog sugar’ on a family-friendly forum like this...