Not what you want to see on a Saturday night...

[rudholm]

OK, so the car apparently had had enough time to think about what it had done and now it is working normally.

It was sitting there, no outside door handles, no headlights, no 12V at all. I put the key in, turned it, nothing. Turned the key back, car turns on. I dismissed the errors and warnings, took it out of Tow Mode, tried to put it into gear, it insisted I wasn't pressing the brake pedal (I was, and the brake lights were on). So I tried to charge it, and that worked. After the charge, the car behaved normally again.

So, yeah, scratching my head here. I'd really like to know what was going on so I can arrange to have it not happen again.

 

[rudholm]

I got errors 259 and 1522. It sounds much different than this, although all sorts of crazy things can happen when the 12 volt battery gets low.

Just in case, the issue with mine was documented in this thread: ID:259

It supposedly was a common issue with 2.0 US VINs 501 to about 720.

This actually sounds like what happened to my car. It happened after the garage had been hot for a while (the last two weeks of August and the first week of September tend to be the hottest weeks of the year in Los Angeles) and the car seemed to be reporting a sheet failure that the logs didn't substantiate, which sounds like it could be that rivet/sense wire problem. The weather cooled down the last day or two.

 

[PV-EV]

If your problem was indeed the rivet for the BMB Sensor then your logs would have shown cells with voltages that were substantially in disagreement with other cells. Your logs do not show this.

 

[rudholm]

Well that didn't last long. Same error mode again.

 

[rudholm]

If your problem was indeed the rivet for the BMB Sensor then your logs would have shown cells with voltages that were substantially in disagreement with other cells. Your logs do not show this.

It sounds like ChadS had the same situation --sheet error but the bricks were within normal ranges.

Maybe there's some related component that has gone bad?

 

[PV-EV]

It sounds like ChadS had the same situation --sheet error but the bricks were within normal ranges.

Chad’s reported results from Tesla:

“In the case of your car, one of the sense lead rivets developed some impedance at its connection to the collector plate. This then causes a voltage drop and the BMB and BSM get incorrect data from the sense lead. The impendence of the connection had grown to the point that the BSM basically thought the pack was overcharged and would not allow the car to start or charge.”

Your voltages all appeared good. Chad’s were not. I added the bold highlight. The voltage drop across the rivet would cause the measured voltage at the bms to be higher.

 

[X.l.r.8]

Wouldn't the codes 259 1522 point to the BMB boards, or at least their connection prior to the BMS?

 

[rudholm]

Loss or partial loss of APS due to bad connection can cause some strange errors. Try inhibiting APS and check your APS connector at the PEM for fit and inspect the pins for problems. Only takes a few minutes. This caused weird VMS and PEM problems in mine. Solved by replacing the connector and pins.

I should try this. Are there pictures somewhere so I know how to find the APS connector on the PEM?

 

[PV-EV]

(Wouldn't the codes 259 1522 point to the BMB boards, or at least their connection prior to the BMS?)

I agree. They would. Except that the provided data (voltages all good) doesn’t fit with the codes. There is also the seemingly related problem of the 12v system which to me sounds like an APS problem. That could be as bad or worse than the sheet problem from a repair standpoint. I am certainly not an expert, just trying to armchair troubleshoot and offer my limited experiences with my own repairs.

 

[rudholm]

Chad’s reported results from Tesla:

“In the case of your car, one of the sense lead rivets developed some impedance at its connection to the collector plate. This then causes a voltage drop and the BMB and BSM get incorrect data from the sense lead. The impendence of the connection had grown to the point that the BSM basically thought the pack was overcharged and would not allow the car to start or charge.”

Your voltages all appeared good. Chad’s were not. I added the bold highlight. The voltage drop across the rivet would cause the measured voltage at the bms to be higher.

Ah, indeed. I remembered Chad saying his Vmin:Vmax were close but now that I look again, he said they were close about a year prior to the failure. So hopefully it's something relatively easy to fix, like the APS connector or something.

 

[PV-EV]

I should try this. Are there pictures somewhere so I know how to find the APS connector on the PEM?

Look at the PEM cleaning thread under the stickies. The APS connector at the PEM is in the right rear most corner of the PEM. Do not disconnect under power.

 

[rudholm]

Look at the PEM cleaning thread under the stickies. The APS connector at the PEM is in the right rear most corner of the PEM. Do not disconnect under power.

Got it. I'll check it when I get home this evening.

 

[rudholm]

APS connector on the PEM looks free of any bent pins or scorching or other signs of trouble.

 

[PV-EV]

At least that was easy to check. Keep us posted about any other findings.

 

[ViviV]

I got errors 259 and 1522. It sounds much different than this, although all sorts of crazy things can happen when the 12 volt battery gets low.

Just in case, the issue with mine was documented in this thread: ID:259

It supposedly was a common issue with 2.0 US VINs 501 to about 720.

I just had those same errors (259 and 1522) just a few weeks ago on VIN #557 while it was charging. Had to have it towed to Tesla on wheel dollies because we couldn't get it into Tow Mode. Tesla evaluated it with bleed tests and said it needed a new battery and could do nothing else. Intermittently it was drive-able and the errors went away so was able to get it onto a transport truck to send it to Gruber Motors...and that is where it is now. I am awaiting follow up on the diagnostics and repair.

 

[rudholm]

I just had those same errors (259 and 1522) just a few weeks ago on VIN #557 while it was charging. Had to have it towed to Tesla on wheel dollies because we couldn't get it into Tow Mode. Tesla evaluated it with bleed tests and said it needed a new battery and could do nothing else. Intermittently it was drive-able and the errors went away so was able to get it onto a transport truck to send it to Gruber Motors...and that is where it is now. I am awaiting follow up on the diagnostics and repair.

What if you had said "yes" to Tesla? Did they say they actually even had batteries?

Chatting with Peter the Younger the other day, he mentioned that they had a New Jersey car in that was showing the same symptoms as mine. I was able to dismiss the errors last night so I charged it for a bit before it error'd out again. I'm pretty sure it's the loose rivet problem, causing an intermittent connection.

 

[ViviV]

What if you had said "yes" to Tesla? Did they say they actually even had batteries?

Chatting with Peter the Younger the other day, he mentioned that they had a New Jersey car in that was showing the same symptoms as mine. I was able to dismiss the errors last night so I charged it for a bit before it error'd out again. I'm pretty sure it's the loose rivet problem, causing an intermittent connection.

No. Tesla did not have any batteries available now or anytime in the near future. They told me to come pick up the car. I said I didn't want to have it towed home and it was not reliably drive-able so they agreed to allow me to leave it there until the transport to Gruber could be arranged, which fortunately was only a few days. I presume the NJ car is indeed mine. The current thought is that the faults are due to a problem with the rivets and the intermittent nature of the faults is due to changes in the weather. Since it is such a long distance to transport, I am preemptively also doing the PEM service while it is at Gruber -- Between the cost of transport both ways and 1 less annual service at Tesla, it is worth it.

 

[jfischer]

hmmm... wonder what they will do for me if NO battery is available and I have a 4 year warranty on the one I have ( 3.5 years LEFT).

Going to be interesting to see how Tesla SC responds and in what manner they honor their commitment.

 

[ViperDoc]

I am hopeful this talk of new cell designs will trickle down to us—especially since I pre-purchased my first replacement battery when I bought the car a bit over 8 years ago and the replacement is to happen by 10 years!

 

[rudholm]

I think they have no batteries, and I think they have stopped constructing re-builds since they discontinued the 3.0 battery.

What they will do for people with remaining warranties is a great question.