NSW’s plans for EVs to 2025 and net-zero emissions by 2050

[Vostok]

For those interested:

Electric and Hybrid Vehicle plan: NSW Electric and Hybrid Vehicle Plan | Future Transport
Direct PDF download: https://future.transport.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/media/documents/2019/Future Transport NSW Electric & Hybrid vehicle plan.pdf

Net Zero plan Stage 1 (2020-2030): Net Zero Plan Stage 1: 2020-2030
Direct PDF download: https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/-/media/OEH/Corporate-Site/Documents/Climate-change/net-zero-plan-2020-2030-200057.pdf

Apparently Matt Kean doesn't get Christmas cards from Angus Taylor. Morrison claimed to not know who he is.

Matt Kean's journey from PwC accountant to electrifying Liberal

 

[rohan_aus]

For those interested:

Electric and Hybrid Vehicle plan: NSW Electric and Hybrid Vehicle Plan | Future Transport
Direct PDF download: https://future.transport.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/media/documents/2019/Future Transport NSW Electric & Hybrid vehicle plan.pdf

Net Zero plan Stage 1 (2020-2030): Net Zero Plan Stage 1: 2020-2030
Direct PDF download: https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/-/media/OEH/Corporate-Site/Documents/Climate-change/net-zero-plan-2020-2030-200057.pdf

Apparently Matt Kean doesn't get Christmas cards from Angus Taylor. Morrison claimed to not know who he is.

Matt Kean's journey from PwC accountant to electrifying Liberal

Really a pitiful effort for "New Actions":
- Try and buy 1 in 10 NSW gov vehicles as EV or Hybrid (at least make this full EV only)
- EV Bus Trial (this has been going on for a while already and is a single bus), why not make this "Replace x number of routes with EV buses by X date"??
- Just trials, investigations and documentation.

Literally nothing of substance. This is extremely disappointing.

 

[Onshore]

Agreed. The document appears to date from Jan 2019 and is full of statements like “investigate this, document that”.

I’d like to see some concrete decisions like:

Change the strata laws so that strata can’t refuse a reasonable request from an owner to install a charger in their car space.

Stamp duty waiver on BEV

Any DA for new or modified petrol station must include an EV charging stall.

Other changes to the planning laws to simplify charger installations.

 

[paulp]

Agreed. The document appears to date from Jan 2019 and is full of statements like “investigate this, document that”.

I’d like to see some concrete decisions like:

Change the strata laws so that strata can’t refuse a reasonable request from an owner to install a charger in their car space.

Stamp duty waiver on BEV

Any DA for new or modified petrol station must include an EV charging stall.

Other changes to the planning laws to simplify charger installations.

I think the better solution for petrol stations is if you want to build one, then you must provide the same number of EV stalls as bowsers but in a location in your state that is at least 25km from an existing EV stall.

 

[Onshore]

I think the better solution for petrol stations is if you want to build one, then you must provide the same number of EV stalls as bowsers but in a location in your state that is at least 25km from an existing EV stall.

That might result in EV stalls appearing in wildly arbitrary locations for compliance reasons, as opposed to where they are actually useful.

People already take their cars to service stations, and the oils companies undertake extensive market research regarding locations.

 

[paulp]

That might result in EV stalls appearing in wildly arbitrary locations for compliance reasons, as opposed to where they are actually useful.

People already take their cars to service stations, and the oils companies undertake extensive market research regarding locations.

The problem I see is that small country towns rarely build new servo’s (in SA), so there needs to be a mechanism to get charging stations into those places.
Also not sure that being parked at a servo and spending an hour or more whilst the petrol fanatics point and laugh “taking a while is it?” Is great EV marketing. Shopping centres and other longer term destinations would make more sense, as they demonstrate that the task of charging an EV takes as long as plugging in.

 

[Onshore]

The problem I see is that small country towns rarely build new servo’s (in SA),

Sure new builds are rare, but like I said, any DA for a modification. Eg: change of hours, new signage, refurbishment etc.

During the drought, some councils in NSW made installation of a water tank a condition of ANY residential DA (subject to feasibility.) Not just new builds, but renovations etc.

 

[cafz]

No-one wants to hang out a servo charging. You'd be better off encouraging them to go in at fast food joints.

 

[Vostok]

Really a pitiful effort for "New Actions":
- EV Bus Trial (this has been going on for a while already and is a single bus), why not make this "Replace x number of routes with EV buses by X date"??

The trial is not a single bus, it is 4 buses Electric Buses — Transit Systems | Bus Network Public Transport Operator | NSW. I’ve been lucky enough to actually be in the right place at the right time and catch them. They are truly magnificent compared to the noisy, vibrating, diesel-fume spewing alternatives.

OK, you still might laugh but it’s a start. According to this article from October last year NSW unveils plan to switch Sydney's 8,000 buses to all-electric. But I haven’t actually seen the RFP issued, then again there’s a thing called Covid that came along...

 

[paulp]

The trial is not a single bus, it is 4 buses Electric Buses — Transit Systems | Bus Network Public Transport Operator | NSW. I’ve been lucky enough to actually be in the right place at the right time and catch them. They are truly magnificent compared to the noisy, vibrating, diesel-fume spewing alternatives.

OK, you still might laugh but it’s a start. According to this article from October last year NSW unveils plan to switch Sydney's 8,000 buses to all-electric. But I haven’t actually seen the RFP issued, then again there’s a thing called Covid that came along...

We’ve had one of these in adelaide for around 7 years. Ours is called ‘tindo’ and does the cbd loop. Good than NSW is thinking of catching up. Electric busses are also made here.

 

[Vostok]

Any DA for new or modified petrol station must include an EV charging stall.

Just about the last place I would ever want to plug-in is at a petrol station. Partly because they are usually truly horrid places in awful locations, and partly because of what they represent.

If it’s part of a highway service centre with food outlets etc then OK. At least there is somewhere to sit down and something useful to do while waiting, and you’re probably on a road trip and need a break and a feed while charging.

But a stand-alone servo? I can barely think of anything worse. In my view more destination chargers are the go.

 

[Vostok]

More on the Sydney electric buses... the total battery capacity on each vehicle is 328kW and said to use around 80kW per hour (presumably if they were driving at the speed limit non-stop) but also regenerate 30-40% since they stop-start so much. That would imply an efficiency around 900 Wh/km or about 5-6 times worse than a Tesla - which is pretty impressive when you consider the size, weight and shape of a city public bus.

Also there’s a new kid on the block, with State Transit (which today runs only 3 of Sydney’s 15 public bus regions - the rest have been ‘privatised’) doing a trial of one bus in the eastern suburbs. See the 29 June entry in this blog: Electric Bus Trial Comes to State Transit

Summarising: “State Transit has been trialling an electric bus over the past two weeks, in order to determine the suitability of electric buses to the State Transit operation... It is understood that the trial is in preparation for an order of electric buses to be made by State Transit. The vehicle, a Yutong ZK6131HGE was based out of Waverley Depot for the duration of the trial. It has a range of approximately 300km on each charge, and operates on a fully electric 324kWh motor. The bus was charged using a 150kW DC charger, capable of a 2.5h quick charge... Despite being based at Waverley, the vehicle had to travel out to STA AMD at Leichhardt each evening to be charged. This is because Waverley depot does not currently have the ability to charge electric buses. If a full order of electric buses is made, Waverley depot will have its gas fuelling facilities converted to electric charging stations to facilitate the fleet.”

 

[Onshore]

Just about the last place I would ever want to plug-in is at a petrol station. Partly because they are usually truly horrid places in awful locations, and partly because of what they represent.

If it’s part of a highway service centre with food outlets etc then OK. At least there is somewhere to sit down and something useful to do while waiting, and you’re probably on a road trip and need a break and a feed while charging.

I was thinking highway service stations. They usually have restaurants, toilets etc, and are very secure with great lighting and plenty of people about.

This is much better than putting chargers at a lonely highway lay-by, where it's just you and an Ivan Milat type character!

The chargers at the service station are also much safer from vandalism.

 

[PC__LoadLetter]

I was thinking highway service stations. They usually have restaurants, toilets etc, and are very secure with great lighting and plenty of people about.

This is much better than putting chargers at a lonely highway lay-by, where it's just you and an Ivan Milat type character!

The chargers at the service station are also much safer from vandalism.

Check out Goulburn. You've got the Tesla Supercharger and the Chargefox Ultra-Rapid. The speed and cost of both are roughly the same.

The supercharger is right next to the railway yards, at the visitor information centre. It's opposite the Soldiers Club (expensive bistro), and it's a few buildings away from the Railway Bowls Club (cheap bistro). It's slightly downhill and one block away from the main drag. However, the clubs and the main drag are all closed at night. The only thing going for this place at night is that it's close to the police station. But if you've got to go, you wouldn't do it in the bushes near a police station!

The ultra-rapid is at the Gateway Service Station at North Goulburn. The servo has lots of bathroom stalls for road-trippers (admittedly dated but perfectly good). It has a coffee machine, sells anything a convenience store sells, and is open 24 hours. It also has a container return refund depot opposite the chargers, so there's always someone around trying to earn their ten cents! The cafe there also reopened, though it's also not open at night. But the Maccas across the street is. And so is the servo. Edit: It also has squeegees - but the one closest to the chargers, at the diesel pumps, is unbelievably grotty!

Given that I do almost all my driving at night, let's just say the Tesla Supercharger is a distant second in my opinion. While I agree that servos are sub-optimal, I'll take it.

My blue-sky real preference is to have on-road charging at 24 hour Maccas sites. Their bathrooms are usually clean enough. And their cuppa and a toastie special is nice at any time of the day or night (even if Kirrawee refuses to make toasties after 11pm).

 

[cafz]

The best site in Goulburn would have been at South Goulburn near the Big Merino. Several places for a feed, including the maccas for 24 hour, and close highway access both directions without needing to detour through town.

 

[PC__LoadLetter]

The best site in Goulburn would have been at South Goulburn near the Big Merino. Several places for a feed, including the maccas for 24 hour, and close highway access both directions without needing to detour through town.

I'll hold back on that one, until we know what's planned for Evie Networks' charger at Marulan. I'm not sure whether it's Northbound, Southbound or both. But it's on their map. And Marulan could be just as good as South Goulburn if you don't want to leave the highway.

It'd be overkill for Goulburn to have three before Pheasants Nest has one! (And unlike Marulan, Pheasants Nest has that quaint little single-lane tunnel that links the twin servos)

 

[Chuq]

I notice this thread has digressed a little, but I agree - blanket forcing servos to install EVs isn't always good

It's really disappointing when a charger or fast charger is installed in a non-optimal location, such that it doesn't get used (or rarely gets used) and then gets seen (by both the public and the operator) as a waste of money, deterring further installs. It can also mean it falls into disrepair so that when someone actually does want to use it, it isn't working.

Chargefox and Evie (and for the most part, NRMA) staggering their chargers is great.

Albury-Wodonga having so many chargers is a small region isn't brilliant, but they are all slightly geographically dispersed (Chargefox @ Barnawartha North, Tesla @ Wodonga, NRMA @ Albury, and the council charger at... the tip?!) Plus Evie is planning one in the area.

Then there are organisations that over saturate regions. City of Moreland in Melbourne installed a fast charger! Awesome! Then they installed another. Then two more. It's great that they are enthusiastic but surely their budget for 4 DC fast charger installs within 9 kilometres of each other could have been better spent?

Hobart City Council has just opened their fast charger and on talking to the guy leading the project he said they plan to installed two more... in suburbs about 3 km from the city. I'm thinking how to approach this and I feel bad doing it, but I'm going to try to talk him out of it and get him to put in AC chargers in a wider range of locations instead.

But by the same token I really feel bad complaining. At the moment, I doubt anyone makes a profit from operating a fast charger! We are lucky we have as many as we do!

 

[cafz]

Albury-Wodonga having so many chargers is a small region isn't brilliant, but they are all slightly geographically dispersed (Chargefox @ Barnawartha North, Tesla @ Wodonga, NRMA @ Albury, and the council charger at... the tip?!)

I laughed out loud when I read the comments on that one on Plugshare. (PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You if you haven't seen it - read the checkins).

Then there are organisations that over saturate regions. City of Moreland in Melbourne installed a fast charger! Awesome! Then they installed another. Then two more. It's great that they are enthusiastic but surely their budget for 4 DC fast charger installs within 9 kilometres of each other could have been better spent?

Hobart City Council has just opened their fast charger and on talking to the guy leading the project he said they plan to installed two more... in suburbs about 3 km from the city. I'm thinking how to approach this and I feel bad doing it, but I'm going to try to talk him out of it and get him to put in AC chargers in a wider range of locations instead.

I think at least two nearby is good for redundancy, since DC fast chargers seem to not be the most reliable of devices at the moment. Two single units at slightly separated locations (so they're on different HV feeders) is slightly better than two units at one location, but either is much better than a single unit with nothing else for a long way.

 

[Shock-On-T]

I can’t help but feel that all these “plans” are basically the natural progression of the technology.
Hardly very ambitious.

 

[Hairyman]

I can’t help but feel that all these “plans” are basically the natural progression of the technology.
Hardly very ambitious.

The art of politics. Let someone else do the work, claim any credit and leave them with the blame