OFFICIAL BUTTON WATCH

[EVNow]

I've noticed that Autopilot on city streets seems to trigger forward collision warnings and lane departure warnings more frequently than off, and those warnings are likely counted negatively for insurance.

AP on city streets doesn't trigger collision and lane departure warnings (since AP is making sure to be in the center of the lane and TACC is on). What it does trigger are nags. I use AP on city streets all the time and I've never got lane departure and forward collision warnings.

 

[momo3605]

AP on city streets doesn't trigger collision and lane departure warnings (since AP is making sure to be in the center of the lane and TACC is on). What it does trigger are nags. I use AP on city streets all the time and I've never got lane departure and forward collision warnings.

It does trigger a lot of warnings. When lanes expand into turning lanes at intersections, large intersections without lines, and people making unprotected turns in front of you or turning into parking lots, I will get a lot of uncomfortable wheel tugs, red blaring hands on wheel warnings, and FCWs. I use it sometimes just to test out if it's improved between builds lol. But once i get the button i will not mess with city AP for 7 days haha.

 

[EVNow]

It does trigger a lot of warnings. When lanes expand into turning lanes at intersections, large intersections without lines, and people making unprotected turns in front of you or turning into parking lots, I will get a lot of uncomfortable wheel tugs, red blaring hands on wheel warnings, and FCWs. I use it sometimes just to test out if it's improved between builds lol. But once i get the button i will not mess with city AP for 7 days haha.

Those are not lane departure warnings - when AP is confused about lanes it nags you or asks you to take over. Unprotected left turns don't give me collision warnings - they used to make AP do hard braking. Not in the last few months.

I take it you don't use AP much in the city. I do 90% of my city driving with AP.

 

[momo3605]

Those are not lane departure warnings - when AP is confused about lanes it nags you or asks you to take over. Unprotected left turns don't give me collision warnings - they used to make AP do hard braking. Not in the last few months.

I take it you don't use AP much in the city. I do 90% of my city driving with AP.

Right, not lane departure warnings, and FCWs are rare, but mostly it's the blaring red nags asking you to take over near intersections. Im pretty sure those will still affect your "driving score" negatively.

 

[EVNow]

Im pretty sure those will still affect your "driving score" negatively.

They shouldn't - those are AP giving up on you.

If users like us can spend 5 minutes to come up with all these potential issues with using collision warning etc for insurance calculation - do you think insurance professionals can't think about these over months (actually now years) ?

 

[Mardak]

I do 90% of my city driving with AP.

Maybe the last 10% contains the difference. A quick glance at Seattle street view, it seems like most narrow residential streets with street parking do not have center lane lines, and that's probably intentional good street design to help reinforce people should driver slower on those streets. Those lane-less streets also result in Autosteer not being able to be activated. Here's a street near Discovery Park that is similar to the roads around here where if there's a large van or truck sticking out into the travel lane, Autosteer will usually drive by without issue but ultrasonics will probably flash dark red:

If you instead turn the steering wheel to give more space around these vehicles, Autopilot often triggers a lane departure warning. Similarly further down the road in this picture, it curves left, and Autosteer will often end up behind the parked vehicle requiring steering adjustment to continue but can result in the warning.

To avoid the warning, one should deactivate Autopilot with the stalk instead of using the steering wheel. (Or as others have suggested, don't use it on these problematic streets during the 7 day insurance/safety observation period.)

 

[FalconFour]

Those are not lane departure warnings - when AP is confused about lanes it nags you or asks you to take over. Unprotected left turns don't give me collision warnings - they used to make AP do hard braking. Not in the last few months.

I take it you don't use AP much in the city. I do 90% of my city driving with AP.

My god, this is so off-base I read it and did a (⊙_◎) "Are you f*king kidding me?".

FCWs and lane departure warnings - you know, the blaring alarm and the message that pops up on the screen saying "corrective action applied" even when it hasn't applied any corrective action? Yeah, those happen on city streets primarily. It seems to be triggered by disengaging AP with the stalk and then making a turn into a driveway/parking lot, with blinker on, crossing a lane line to do so. It's not happened to me lately, but it used to be so much of a problem, I contacted Tesla about it. They investigated and confirmed it happens to people and they're working on it (and perhaps they did fix it).

FCWs happen when traffic is being weird and stupid, but I'm keeping up faster than AP is. Also rare, but they happen, and it's incredibly frustrating when they do.

The only times I've had an FCW occur while AP was engaged was on city streets, too.

To hear someone just categorically and authoritatively state that what we're observing, and 100% know to be what we say it is, is a figment of our imagination... that's bordering on the offensive. We're not stupid. This stuff does happen, and it's of slight concern how it'll be handled by the FSD-eligibility-meter.

I just take comfort in knowing I'm likely more attentive and careful than many of the FSD beta testers they already have... so I'd do at least as well with those checks, if they're any benchmark

 

[KArnold]

I use AP on city streets all the time and I've never got lane departure and forward collision warnings.

With this new FSD insurance monitoring thing, I've been practicing avoiding any "hits". Probably won't help, but I'm in chill mode, following distance is set to MAX, Set max speed limit. Lane aggressiveness Mad Max is low. FCW is late (didn't want to turn it off).

Then I'm on a two lane road, using NAV nicely. Come across a bicyclist and you want to move left (oncoming traffic permitting) to give him plenty of room, which NAV won't do on it's own. So just push left-of-center a bit and get a lane violation. Good ways down the street an oncoming car is then coming so you get the FCW. Not sure it would have been any different if I had first dis-engaged NAV or not but I doubt it.

Bottom line - it happens. I wouldn't say often but certainly regularly.

 

[dgatwood]

FCWs and lane departure warnings - you know, the blaring alarm and the message that pops up on the screen saying "corrective action applied" even when it hasn't applied any corrective action? Yeah, those happen on city streets primarily. It seems to be triggered by disengaging AP with the stalk and then making a turn into a driveway/parking lot, with blinker on, crossing a lane line to do so. It's not happened to me lately, but it used to be so much of a problem, I contacted Tesla about it. They investigated and confirmed it happens to people and they're working on it (and perhaps they did fix it).

It also happens frequently for me right after disengaging AP to force a lane change on the highway when AP gets stuck. Apparently, it takes AP a couple of seconds to fully disengage, during which time it is monitoring, but not driving.

 

[FalconFour]

It also happens frequently for me right after disengaging AP to force a lane change on the highway when AP gets stuck. Apparently, it takes AP a couple of seconds to fully disengage, during which time it is monitoring, but not driving.

For me, I get the "huh, are you flicking the blinker on for a reason, or... am I supposed to do something here?" reaction on AP occasionally (screen not even indicating that it recognizes an auto-lane-change request), but fairly rarely. Of those, I break it out of autosteer by forcing the wheel, blinker still on, do the lane change I had already been awkwardly signaling for some seconds, and re-enable Autosteer. It doesn't give me any lane departure warning. I would think it would inhibit those if you're using a blinker, though.

 

[Buckminster]

Button coming tomorrow!
Important video here:

Chuck is confident on Tesla solving FSD on all cases except unprotected left turns which he thinks needs H/W 4.0. I agree that this will be tricky. My thinking about this case:

1) Some folk say it is about the location of the b pillar camera. Chuck is more concerned by the limitations of the 80m camera versus the 250m camera in the front.
2) Some say it is about AI limitations
3) Some say it is about the camera

The multiple problems causes the confusion. They each affect each other but ultimately there will probably be only one root cause that can either be fixed or not.

Workarounds:
1) Chuck didn't mention it but it is perfectly possible that H/W 3.0 vehicles avoid unprotected left turns. Either proactively via nav or reactively by turning right etc.
2) Level 4 - driver takes over

H/W 3.0 fix
Once all 10 FSD developers have fixed everything else they will be able to put all resources on this. My idea is to compare each pixel (or voxel) to the same pixel for every frame over the past 1-2 seconds and even longer. This should be able to work out whether a vehicle is coming or not. Dojo will work it out. They might be looking for pixel changes over time rather than edges etc. which they are set up for now.

 

[qdeathstar]

I got 5 bucks on the button not coming by 00:00 September 25 PST if anyone wants that bet.


Edit: 2021 just so we are clear.

 

[oliphant428]

I got 5 bucks on the button not coming by 00:00 September 25 PST if anyone wants that bet.


Edit: 2021 just so we are clear.

You'd win that bet because we're currently in daylight time, so it would be PDT.

 

[boonedocks]

I got 5 bucks on the button not coming by 00:00 September 25 PST if anyone wants that bet.


Edit: 2021 just so we are clear.

My personal opinion is that Elon posted that tweet about the FSD button request after midnight the Thursday before and technically, and that is how Eon's brain works, was Friday already. I believe he meant 10/1/21 and not 9/24/21

 

[tivoboy]

Isn't it already Friday on Mars. They have to be on the other side of some dateline.

 

[dckiwi]

Elon has been unusually quiet about FSD this week. He is likely to tweet out soon either a positive update (10.1 is mindblowing, button rolling out tomorrow!) or back-pedal ('10.1 looks amazing, need a little more time and then will release button!').

It seems unlikely to me that tomorrow they will release 1) 10.1 with a single stack for city/highway AND 2) the public opt-in request button.

 

[KidsEyeDr]

Elon has been unusually quiet about FSD this week. He is likely to tweet out soon either a positive update (10.1 is mindblowing, button rolling out tomorrow!) or back-pedal ('10.1 looks amazing, need a little more time and then will release button!').

It seems unlikely to me that tomorrow they will release 1) 10.1 with a single stack for city/highway AND 2) the public opt-in request button.

 

[qdeathstar]

You'd win that bet because we're currently in daylight time, so it would be PDT.

Ok Chronos…

 

[nativewolf]

I got 5 bucks on the button not coming by 00:00 September 25 PST if anyone wants that bet.


Edit: 2021 just so we are clear.

Since he said Oct 1 ....I'd say you are going to make money

 

[EVNow]

I got 5 bucks on the button not coming by 00:00 September 25 PST if anyone wants that bet.


Edit: 2021 just so we are clear.

Button itself is an easy update.

The question is - when will fsd beta start rolling out to people who requested using the button. Thats the tough one.