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dennis
Model S Plaid
It appears that Tesla now has a "party line" on this issue and is attempting to communicate it to everyone who has complained.
They intend to take no action. And they still have failed to explain why they didn't state that only newer cars were going to be able to charge at 120kw when they announced that capability.
ken830
Model S 85, Model 3 Performance, Model X LongRange
I think all Tesla really needs to do is acknowledge that they screwed up in their announcement of the Supercharger improvement and mislead all of their existing customers into thinking that the improvement applied to them. Instead, the rep was just too defensive of their position, even going as far as saying I got the car before so and so price increase so they should use the older parts. It's just an uncomfortable feeling. I honestly didn't think it was a huge deal before they called me.
But again, that is not what happened. Had what you described happened happened, most people on here would not be very upset. I know I wouldn't. This would be placed in the same category as heated rear seats and folding mirrors. Instead I was personally told that I would be getting the 300W panel upgrade.
I talked to at least a dozen Tesla employees about this, who know me and when I got my car and how old it was because I've been talking to them for half a decade and every one of them expected my car to charge at 120kW. Service centers assured me that I should be charging at 120kW. Service centers assured me that I should be charging at 120kW again after the latest round of updates and agreed that if it wasn't something was wrong with my car. This clearly shows that this was not some misunderstanding that only I had. The applicability of this update was communicated to everyone internally as well as externally as to cover ALL cars.
Peter
I talked to at least a dozen Tesla employees about this, who know me and when I got my car and how old it was because I've been talking to them for half a decade and every one of them expected my car to charge at 120kW. Service centers assured me that I should be charging at 120kW. Service centers assured me that I should be charging at 120kW again after the latest round of updates and agreed that if it wasn't something was wrong with my car. This clearly shows that this was not some misunderstanding that only I had. The applicability of this update was communicated to everyone internally as well as externally as to cover ALL cars.
Peter
NigelM
Recovering Member
Peter is right that it was not some isolated misunderstanding; the facts are pretty simple: Tesla messed up the communications and it would cost them millions to bring us all up to their promised standard so they're not going to do anything to correct the situation.
Sadly Tesla has undoubtedly lost some trust from early, early adopters but now it is what it is. As a Sig owner I'm inclined to be a little more skeptical of Tesla's pronouncements than I was in the past; as a shareholder I hope they learned something from this debacle.
Picking at this is not going to make any of us feel better nor change any of the facts; with this thread over 1,000 posts on the subject I personally think it's time for us to move on.
Sadly Tesla has undoubtedly lost some trust from early, early adopters but now it is what it is. As a Sig owner I'm inclined to be a little more skeptical of Tesla's pronouncements than I was in the past; as a shareholder I hope they learned something from this debacle.
Picking at this is not going to make any of us feel better nor change any of the facts; with this thread over 1,000 posts on the subject I personally think it's time for us to move on.
SUPRKAR
Member
My feelings exactly. Let's hope there are good choices beside Tesla when we buy our next electric car. I too have stopped recommending Tesla at this point also like you pointed out nice car but not the Company I thought and hoped they would be. Battery, visors and panoramic shade aside this is what bothers me the most.
JakeP
S P4996 ==> P02547
Confirmed today that my B battery can do better than 90kWh. I saw 103 kWh before it started ramping down.
SUPRKAR
Member
epley
P85 VIN 693
For some perspective: my mom has been ill, so I've been travelling between Woodinville, WA (outside of Seattle) and Salem, OR a lot over the past month. The distance is 245 miles and it's hilly. Can't make it on a single charge. There are 2 superchargers between Woodinville and Salem: Centralia and Woodburn. I've covered 2,000+ miles in a month on I-5. All total, it's cost me $28 in charging at home. $28! Less than a single tank of gas for a small car. I have an A pack (VIN 693). The superchargers are fast, I haven't felt delayed unnecessarily, and THE CHARGING IS FREE!
There are those for whom the glass is half full, and those for whom the glass is half empty. This whole tempest is a glass half empty problem. My 14-year old son posted to Twitter a couple of weeks ago with a solution for this: "So you say the glass is half empty? It's pretty easy to walk over to the sink and fill it up again."
One of the things the Tesla has taught me is to slow down and smell the roses. If you want to save those extra 4+ minutes, drive your ICE. It will beat the Tesla on long trips every time. If you want to have a more pleasurable experience in all aspects, drive your Tesla and don't worry about a few minutes here or there.
There are those for whom the glass is half full, and those for whom the glass is half empty. This whole tempest is a glass half empty problem. My 14-year old son posted to Twitter a couple of weeks ago with a solution for this: "So you say the glass is half empty? It's pretty easy to walk over to the sink and fill it up again."
One of the things the Tesla has taught me is to slow down and smell the roses. If you want to save those extra 4+ minutes, drive your ICE. It will beat the Tesla on long trips every time. If you want to have a more pleasurable experience in all aspects, drive your Tesla and don't worry about a few minutes here or there.
Your 14 year old son seems to be a smart young man. Does he get it from his Mom or his Dad??? But seriously, it kinda puts things in a bit of perspective, doesn't it?
No... using your analogy, all Tesla did was increase the amount of sunshine to each panel. Those with 230W panels are still getting 230W. Those with 300W panels are getting 300W. No change was made to your panel, there is just more sunshine (energy) to go around. You still have the panel that you were promised at the time you bought it. Let's assume that there was a communication problem and that the company got your hopes up, thinking that you would get a 300W panel through a miraculous software upgrade, but it didn't come true. Does that disappointment change the fact that you still received exactly what was promised at the time you bought your panels? Did Tesla's miscommunication damage you in a manner to allow you to demand a new panel?
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I think it's time for some tough love...
From Tesla's September 2012 press release:
This statement clearly says that 120 kW is a potential future functionality. Not only is it in the future, it's potentially in the future - that hardly rises to the level of a promise, feature, or commitment. The only existing capability mentioned is "almost 100 kW" which is absolutely correct. I'm not sure how anyone reading this press release would expect to receive 120 kW supercharging. The press release clearly delineates current capability from potential future capability.
Now from Tesla's May 2013 press release:
Again, the language is clear. 120 kW was in beta testing as of May 2013 and Tesla's plan was to roll it out to customers in the summer. That doesn't mean all customers, past customers, Sig customers, or anyone who bought before this announcement customers. It says "rolled out to customers this summer". That means customers who buy the car "this summer". Really the only people who should be upset are those who received A batteries after May 30th... oh wait, there aren't any.
At the risk of offending some of the vocal members of this thread, it seems that those who are most upset are angry because others got a newer part at the same time and are now trying to go back in time to parse Tesla's words in an attempt to have their part upgraded. There are undoubtedly many other components in your cars that have seen later iterations that you don't even know about. Later shipments may have received touch screens with lower latencies, later shipments may contain slightly different cellular radio configurations based on whatever was the newest shipping part from the distributor, etc. Are you going to demand that Tesla update every component once you learn that someone in your time frame received a better or more capable component, even though the one everyone received performed to the specifications promised by Tesla?
You can't become retroactively upset over something that was never promised, can you? Nothing Tesla has done is decreasing your charging rate or increasing your charging time. Nothing Tesla has done has taken away your ability to charge at the rate that was promised and which you have been enjoying since taking delivery. Tesla never promised anyone prior to May 2013 that they would get 120 kW supercharging - it was clearly stated as a future functionality. I don't know how anyone could interpret that same press release and construe it as a promise or commitment of some sort, unless that interpretation was performed in hindsight and with the intent to find a wording technicality or ambiguity to construe in the owner's favor. Unfortunately, that's disingenuous.
To those who are claiming that Tesla's position rises to the level of a lie, I suggest you take a deep breath and calm yourselves. That's a lot of drama over having received exactly what Tesla promised you at the time you ordered your vehicle. The only complaints that are legitimate, in my opinion, are from those who received A batteries after the May 30th, 2013 press release announcing the summer rollout. Except, there are none that we know of. Everyone else got what was promised.
Can we move on?
From Tesla's September 2012 press release:
The Supercharger is substantially more powerful than any charging technology to date, providing almost 100 kilowatts of power to the Model S, with the potential to go as high as 120 kilowatts in the future.
This statement clearly says that 120 kW is a potential future functionality. Not only is it in the future, it's potentially in the future - that hardly rises to the level of a promise, feature, or commitment. The only existing capability mentioned is "almost 100 kW" which is absolutely correct. I'm not sure how anyone reading this press release would expect to receive 120 kW supercharging. The press release clearly delineates current capability from potential future capability.
Now from Tesla's May 2013 press release:
The new technology, which is in beta test mode now and will be fully rolled out to customers this summer, will allow Model S to be charged at 120 kW, replenishing three hours of driving in just over 20 minutes.
Again, the language is clear. 120 kW was in beta testing as of May 2013 and Tesla's plan was to roll it out to customers in the summer. That doesn't mean all customers, past customers, Sig customers, or anyone who bought before this announcement customers. It says "rolled out to customers this summer". That means customers who buy the car "this summer". Really the only people who should be upset are those who received A batteries after May 30th... oh wait, there aren't any.
At the risk of offending some of the vocal members of this thread, it seems that those who are most upset are angry because others got a newer part at the same time and are now trying to go back in time to parse Tesla's words in an attempt to have their part upgraded. There are undoubtedly many other components in your cars that have seen later iterations that you don't even know about. Later shipments may have received touch screens with lower latencies, later shipments may contain slightly different cellular radio configurations based on whatever was the newest shipping part from the distributor, etc. Are you going to demand that Tesla update every component once you learn that someone in your time frame received a better or more capable component, even though the one everyone received performed to the specifications promised by Tesla?
You can't become retroactively upset over something that was never promised, can you? Nothing Tesla has done is decreasing your charging rate or increasing your charging time. Nothing Tesla has done has taken away your ability to charge at the rate that was promised and which you have been enjoying since taking delivery. Tesla never promised anyone prior to May 2013 that they would get 120 kW supercharging - it was clearly stated as a future functionality. I don't know how anyone could interpret that same press release and construe it as a promise or commitment of some sort, unless that interpretation was performed in hindsight and with the intent to find a wording technicality or ambiguity to construe in the owner's favor. Unfortunately, that's disingenuous.
To those who are claiming that Tesla's position rises to the level of a lie, I suggest you take a deep breath and calm yourselves. That's a lot of drama over having received exactly what Tesla promised you at the time you ordered your vehicle. The only complaints that are legitimate, in my opinion, are from those who received A batteries after the May 30th, 2013 press release announcing the summer rollout. Except, there are none that we know of. Everyone else got what was promised.
Can we move on?
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Not on your mis characterization of most of the 'upset' people's position.
I am in no way angry that later buyers got improved technology.
Just as I am in no way angry that later buyers got parking sensors, winter heating package, power mirrors, etc.
My concern is with Tesla's sloppy communication. Thank you for posting the press releases.
Your definition of "customer" and mine is different. While you don't count me as a "customer" since I previously purchased my cars, I do. I am surprised you don't consider yourself a Tesla customer.
Such communication will erode customer satisfaction levels and slow the sales of Tesla. As an investor and someone that wants to see people adopt EVs I consider that a bad thing.
As I reread the releases you quoted it reaffirms my recollection that this would be an upgrade to the superchargers and that all customers would benefit from this. The fact that this was unclear is the bigger problem here, not that I don't have 120kWh charging.
No.
I personally talked with engineers about Supercharging as far back as 2011. I had a very clear understanding of what they were working on, and what they were testing, and it was not just 90kW, long long before the May 2013 announcement. You may not have been in "the know" but that does not mean that it was some top secret item that was just unveiled and those of us prior to May 2013 didn't know anything about it.
Every person here, and just about every Tesla Employee, expected my car to charge at 120kW. Trying to parse the words from the May 2013 announcement to show that we shouldn't have expected anything from our cars is disingenuous as every person that heard it expected all cars to support 120kW charging. It is only with 20/20 hindsight that you can make such an argument. Furthermore, I would be careful with that type of argument because Tesla tends to be very loose with it's statements and the number of questions that type of viewpoint brings up would bring the forum to a standstill.
You speak of the vocal members of this thread. Perhaps you should take a moment to see that many of those that are very vocal here are some of Tesla's oldest and longest supporters. Many for between 5 years and a decade. Each has personally helped to sell dozens of cars. The fact that many of those supporters see such a large issues with the communication and handling of this should give you pause to take off your fanboy hat and ask yourself if the company is heading in the correct direction. It certainly has me.
Peter
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
As others have pointed out this is still true whenever there is more than one car splitting a charge, just as further potential power increases will benefit all customers even if no single car can charge at a higher rate. If Tesla announces 150kW chargers in the future does that not also benefit all customers even if no car is capable of charging above 120kw? I agree that Tesla could have been more precise in their wording, and hopefully will be in the future, but I think their wording has them covered in this case.
So you aren't upset that you got something other than what was promised at the time you bought your car, you are upset that Tesla raised your hopes about something after you bought your car, based upon your interpretation of the word "customer", that turned out not to be true. Disappointment doesn't rise to the level of deserving a new battery, as others are suggesting. I'm not picking on you, just using your viewpoint as an example as it is probably shared by others. I'm trying to be logical here and to separate facts from emotion.
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