Older Teslas limited to 90kW Supercharging

[apacheguy]

So, while a little disappointment occurred on discovering that 120 wasn't a software upgradable fix, I'm very happy that when it comes time to replace the pack, it will have the latest capabilities and this bodes well for continued hope that 7 years from now when I replace the pack, the new 220kw/500 mile pack will be compatible with my sig!:smile:

Maybe I'm just skeptical, but I can think of a number of reasons why a 220 kW pack would not be compatible with our cars:

Sheer weight increase of the pack
Different electrical wiring requirements
Different cooling/heating scheme required
10 kW on board charger would be rendered useless

I can easily see how it would require extensive modification to many components of the car and indeed would rival the cost of purchasing a brand new Tesla. Personally I'm not betting on a future solution as I am more focused on the currently reality.

 

[smartypnz]

Older MS produced 7 Dec 2012 with replacement B battery done Aug 2013. SC chart therefore may be of interest. 27*F with car arriving just 300 feet past 0 miles. Readings taken onsite: Minutes, Miles(rated), Amps, and Volts. KW were computed on calculator later to avoid any errors. Car driven 140 miles non-stop down to 4 miles, parked for 12 min, then drove down to zero @SC.

View attachment 40483
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I plotted my 'A' data on the same chart.
At 10 minutes I was at 36 rated miles 89.8 kW
At 20 minutes I was at 77 rated miles 89.6 kW
At 30 minutes I was at 124 rated miles 66 kW
At 40 minutes I was at 152 rated miles 46 kW
At 50 minutes I was at 178 rated miles 43 kW
At 60 minutes I was at 196 rated miles 35 kW

Started out at 86 kW hit 89 kW around 8 minutes. Held above 89 kW until 23 minutes in.

 

[JRP3]

Maybe I'm just skeptical, but I can think of a number of reasons why a 220 kW pack would not be compatible with our cars:

Sheer weight increase of the pack

Increased energy density would address that, without it you don't get a 500 mile pack.

Different electrical wiring requirements

Probably, unless they wired it initially for extra sustained power.

Different cooling/heating scheme required

Most likely, though a potentially lower effective resistance cell chemistry might mean less heating, or a more heat resistance chemistry, or a combination of the two.

10 kW on board charger would be rendered useless

Why? Just because you have a longer range pack doesn't mean your daily home charging needs would change that much.

 

[SUPRKAR]

As we've all seen in the past, its one thing to announce something (greatest service in the world, loaners for everyone, by year end (2013) travel cross country on SC's for free, yadda yadda) and another to actually follow though.....

Its like the great Seinfeld episode, "Anyone can take a reservation (make an announcement), you just don't know how to hold the reservation (follow through)....

+1 Tesla's annoumcents are only as good as their follow through. Kind of like Performance loaners while your car is being fixed. Do not hold your breath.

Tesla announcement = Good
Tesla follow through = NOT GOOD

Here is a suggestion how about getting the earlier announcements working.

 

[napabill]

One scenario that would explain why TM has been reluctant to engage the owners in a discussion of the "A" battery issue: the issue is between TM and Panasonic and negotiations for resolution are ongoing. If TM did not receive from Panasonic what they contracted for, this could get interesting. So replacing battery packs might not be a TM cost. But the short supply of packs for new cars might be the limiting factor. Wishful thinking? Maybe. But one can always hope.:smile:

 

[smartypnz]

Here's the data I logged - My S85 has 17000 miles , end of April delivery. 'A' battery

 

[SUPRKAR]

My local service manager told me that Tesla is going to make two very big announcements soon regarding service. He would not give me any details or hints, but said it would blow everyone away and would be the talk of the industry. He could not confirm whether these announcements had anything to do with the battery issues as described in this thread, but they are definitely service related and will impact all owners. The one thing he did say regarding this batterygate: it's a far more complex issue than anyone knows.

Tesla replaced an early Sig battery on a car belonging to one of the posters in this thread didn't seem to be so COMPLEX perhaps your local service manager is full of it.

 

[Gear]

So is the taper actually any better on the 120kW batteries? It seems like people with 90kW batteries are able to stay pretty close to 90kW for about 25 minutes, while wycolo's chart drops below 90kW at 19 minutes.

 

[bonnie]

Tesla replaced an early Sig battery on a car belonging to one of the posters in this thread didn't seem to be so COMPLEX perhaps your local service manager is full of it.

Maybe the *complexity* has to do with something other than the work required to replace a battery.

 

[Gear]

Tesla replaced an early Sig battery on a car belonging to one of the posters in this thread didn't seem to be so COMPLEX perhaps your local service manager is full of it.

Let's not be rude. I assume he meant that the issue with the A batteries not being able to charge at 120kW is complex. Simply changing them is obviously easy, but it's also expensive for them to do it on every A battery car, especially when there's nothing actually wrong with them.

 

[smartypnz]

So is the taper actually any better on the 120kW batteries? It seems like people with 90kW batteries are able to stay pretty close to 90kW for about 25 minutes, while wycolo's chart drops below 90kW at 19 minutes.

Really don't understand what's happening.
Wycolo's chart shows 118 miles after 20 minutes and 154 at 30 minutes
Mine is at 79 and 124 respectively.
To match his miles would take 27 minutes and 41 minutes.

It may be hanging at 90kW longer, but where is this 4 minute difference I am hearing about?

 

[SUPRKAR]

Maybe the *complexity* has to do with something other than the work required to replace a battery.

We will have to ask that Sig owner what other work was done. My recall of the post and follow up questions by other members indicated just a simple battery replacement. I think adding something else to the mix is just to make it seem very complex when it might not be.

 

[bonnie]

You're missing my point. It's the issue that might be complex. Not necessarily replacing the battery. The entire issue. Perhaps Panasonic is responsible & that still has to be worked out. Maybe it's something else. There are all sorts of things that could add to the complexity that has nothing to do with work performed at a service center.

 

[Canuck]

My local service manager told me that Tesla is going to make two very big announcements soon regarding service. He would not give me any details or hints, but said it would blow everyone away and would be the talk of the industry. He could not confirm whether these announcements had anything to do with the battery issues as described in this thread, but they are definitely service related and will impact all owners. The one thing he did say regarding this batterygate: it's a far more complex issue than anyone knows.

Maybe one of them was the announcement recently of: Tesla (TSLA) to Send Out new Wall Charger Adapters Amid Overheating Problem

It didn’t blow everyone away bit it did get a lot of press.

 

[SUPRKAR]

Let's not be rude. I assume he meant that the issue with the A batteries not being able to charge at 120kW is complex. Simply changing them is obviously easy, but it's also expensive for them to do it on every A battery car, especially when there's nothing actually wrong with them.

Not meaning to be rude. Had the Service manager used your explanation it would have been straight forward and clear which seems to be a problem for Tesla. Nothing actually wrong with the A's, are we sure about that who will tell us the truth, the same person who told us the A packs would not charge at 120k. I am concerned about battery degradation of the A vs the B. Will be interesting to see if they are the same. Sorry but my trust in Tesla is no more and if there is the possibility the A packs will degrade faster I am sure we will NOT hear it from Tesla

- - - Updated - - -

You're missing my point. It's the issue that might be complex. Not necessarily replacing the battery. The entire issue. Perhaps Panasonic is responsible & that still has to be worked out. Maybe it's something else. There are all sorts of things that could add to the complexity that has nothing to do with work performed at a service center.

I agree, did not quite see what you were getting at. Would it be that difficult for Tesla to share this complexity with us, after all we were the early followers that stood with Tesla, now who are we.

 

[bonnie]

I agree, did not quite see what you were getting at. Would it be that difficult for Tesla to share this complexity with us, after all we were the early followers that stood with Tesla, now who are we.

Perhaps they will. This story isn't over yet.

 

[SUPRKAR]

Perhaps they will. This story isn't over yet.

Bonnie, I hope you are right!

 

[Dave EV]

View attachment 40502
Here's the data I logged - My S85 has 17000 miles , end of April delivery. 'A' battery

Great plot smartypnz - clearly shows that the limiting factor here is a ceiling of 90 kW and 250A. Note that at neither time is either spec exceeded.

120 kW capable cars go well over 300A - in the neighborhood of 343A is the highest I've seen.

So in addition to the 90 kW limit, there's also a 250A limit, though I'm not quite sure why this would be the case - since the pack can deliver well over 300 kW which would be well over 800A.

 

[joefee]

Tesla Upgrades Software, Still Battling Fire Concerns - Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA) - 24/7 Wall St.

Re: The above Tesla statement on new wall adapters "Although we do not believe the improved adapter is required to address the issue, we are taking this step as part of our commitment to full customer satisfaction." Note to corporate >>>>> the "commitment to full customer satisfaction" needs to be applied to "A-pack-gate" ASAP. Please offer Sig's a prorated battery swap with a Sig Tax credit and use the trade in packs for loaner cars (typically used for local trips not supercharger use) or grid storage at Solar City. Maybe give Production A's a 1,000 dollar credit????

 

[Vger]

Perhaps they will. This story isn't over yet.

I know you cannot say, but I HOPE this optimism is informed by your excellent relationship with the Tesla brass. :wink: