Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

[Tertulian]

You know, on the topic of a national EV incentive program, I was just reflecting that it is a sad commentary on the current state of affairs when a climate-change-denying Republican administration is able to boast a more comprehensive electric car program than a Liberal Canadian government.

Go Trudeau :|

 

[sitter_k]

You know, on the topic of a national EV incentive program, I was just reflecting that it is a sad commentary on the current state of affairs when a climate-change-denying Republican administration is able to boast a more comprehensive electric car program than a Liberal Canadian government.

Go Trudeau :|

Yeah but that's because it came under Obama and no one has told Trump about the tax credit yet...they tell him stuff then he gets fixed on it for a couple weeks. Last week they told him about picking a new Justice, the week before someone mentioned to him pardon power so he played with that toy for a while, then that he could just take kids from their parents and that might stop border crossers and he could blame it on dems.

 

[funkafied]

Hi- what a crappy boat to be in! I configured May 5. I am hoping the MPP will help. I called MTO but got a message saying voicemail full. The Tesla guy was not at all optimistic.

If you haven't already, please contact Greg Keenan at Globe and Mail Greg Keenanand Michelle Cheung at CBC ASAP please Michelle Cheung (@MichelleCBC) | Twitter. They are doing stories about this so make sure your voice is heard!!!! Everyone do this if you are impacted by Ford's decision to remove the incentive for Tesla customers who have ordered before July 11th!

 

[Tertulian]

Yeah but that's because it came under Obama and no one has told Trump about the tax credit yet...they tell him stuff then he gets fixed on it for a couple weeks. Last week they told him about picking a new Justice, the week before someone mentioned to him pardon power so he played with that toy for a while, then that he could just take kids from their parents and that might stop border crossers and he could blame it on dems.

I know - my comment was an ironic one...tongue in cheek. Still, when you look at this absurd state of affairs, it is worth noting.

 

[Amendale]

Globe and mail article:

Ontario buyers of Tesla’s Model 3 sedan who are still waiting for their cars to be delivered have a difficult choice after the province’s new government cancelled a rebate program for buyers of electric vehicles – fork out $14,000 or give up on a car they have been waiting years to drive.

The new government of Doug Ford cancelled the electric- and hydrogen-vehicle incentive program – which provided $14,000 to buyers of Tesla Inc. cars – as part of its elimination of Ontario’s cap-and-trade emissions-reduction system. Revenue from cap and trade financed the electric-vehicle rebates.

The cancellation applies to all vehicles for which a rebate was offered, but vehicles on dealer lots or ordered from manufacturers by July 11 are still eligible for the refund if delivered, registered and given licence plates by Sept. 10.

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But the rules are different for Tesla buyers. The catch is that Tesla does not have traditional dealerships with cars sitting on lots waiting to be picked up, but instead delivers directly to customers.

That means Tesla customers whose vehicles have been ordered but were not delivered by Wednesday will not receive the rebate. Ministry of Transportation spokesman Bob Nichols confirmed that the rebate will not apply, saying the two-month wind-down of the program was put in place to minimize impact to car dealerships.

“Given that Tesla do not operate on a dealership model, the wind-down approach to mitigate impacts to dealerships does not apply to them,” Mr. Nichols said.

Ross Kirkconnell, a health-care professional who lives in Guelph, Ont., was expecting delivery of his Tesla 3 on July 30. It would have been his first new car.

Mr. Kirkconnell put down a $1,000 deposit when he ordered the car 18 months ago and another $3,200 when he made his order final in May. He spent another $1,763 to buy a home charger and have it installed.

“I was really excited about leading-edge, clean technology,” he said in an e-mail on Friday. “So now I’m holding the bag. Do I continue driving my 2008 car that uses premium gas? I can’t justify the extra $14,000 and wouldn’t have even ordered if this wasn’t available.”

The Model 3 starts at $45,600 with an all-wheel-drive performance model offered for a manufacturer’s suggested retail price of $84,800.

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Zenon Shevciw of Toronto is one of more than 20 Tesla buyers who contacted The Globe and Mail on Friday criticizing the government for excluding them from the two-month grace period that applies to purchasers of electric vehicles from other car companies who will take delivery before Sept. 10.

Mr. Shevciw ordered his Model 3 on June 27.

“I believe this was done specifically to target Tesla buyers as they buy directly from the manufacturer, especially as Premier Ford has referred to Tesla owners as ‘downtown liberals’ and ‘millionaires,’ ” Mr. Shevciw said in an e-mail. “This is simply not true … For most of us, the rebate is the difference between affordability and non-affordability. Many of us have ordered this car in good faith, placing a $4,200 non-refundable deposit.”

Tesla salespeople told buyers on Friday that the company will refund their $4,200 deposits.

David Brassor of Barrie, Ont., whose wife made a $1,000 deposit with Tesla as a Father’s Day gift to him in 2016, placed his final order on June 11.

He has a Tesla wall charger sitting in his house waiting to be installed.

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“I will be putting the install on hold until I figure out what I am doing re: the car,” he said.

Several buyers e-mailed to The Globe Twitter exchanges they had with @fordnation, Mr. Ford’s Twitter account and the Twitter account of his campaign, in which they were told that if they ordered their cars before June 29, they would still receive the rebate.

 

[ThiagoSnow]

Me too

Me too

 

[jching]

Globe and mail issued an article on the Tesla model 3. not sure if that is what everyone is talking about. Also in the same boat but think I've come to terms with no incentive...

 

[ThiagoSnow]

Just wrote an email to Michelle as well

 

[ThiagoSnow]

Tesla is doing all we can to troubleshoot this matter. As it still stands, the Ontario Government has removed all rebates for any Tesla vehicles.


Kind regards,



Rachael Lopez | Inside Delivery Advisor

 

[ThiagoSnow]

Tesla is doing all we can to troubleshoot this matter. As it still stands, the Ontario Government has removed all rebates for any Tesla vehicles.


Kind regards,



Rachael Inside Delivery Advisor

 

[felixculpas]

My intake on this. Ford taking away this program was reasonable. Most of the people buying this car are at least in middle income class and can justify it. Do we need to provide incentives to people who are buying a pricier car? But before anyone chews my ear off....

It was not fair to not make due on the orders that are in the system. People, like us, ordered this car expecting a rebate of $14k and now how to plan on how to make this work financially. Was it not available we would have never ordered the car. The great news is that it seems, according to posts, Tesla is willing to refund the deposits which says a lot about who they are as a company. I'm very impressed.

We were not due for a new car yet but one of our cars is close to going to heaven. Calculating the cost of gas (husband works an hour away), new car payments, plus maintenance, it probably is very much worth the payments on the Tesla. Those who are looking for a new car should do the math .

My two cents

As has been stated many times in this thread earlier on, it's a program who's intentions were to incentivize people to make choices that reduced GHG's. It really shouldn't have anything to do with the price of the vehicle. In fact it could be argued that those with more wealth are buying vehicles that contribute even more GHG's so your best effect is getting them into EV's.

Clearly, Ford is showing he is anti-climate change. His base is rather scary. Elon, fire up those rockets...

 

[realtycoon]

Just throwing this out there. GM, Ford, Honda and Toyota have significant manufacturing plants in Ontario and are influenential politically. They have also consistently fought Tesla on the dealer laws in the States . The treatment of the cancellation really smells like they had some influence through their lobbying on how it would be wound down. I really think they share a lot of the blame for this mess

 

[realtycoon]

My intake on this. Ford taking away this program was reasonable. Most of the people buying this car are at least in middle income class and can justify it. Do we need to provide incentives to people who are buying a pricier car? But before anyone chews my ear off....

It was not fair to not make due on the orders that are in the system. People, like us, ordered this car expecting a rebate of $14k and now how to plan on how to make this work financially. Was it not available we would have never ordered the car. The great news is that it seems, according to posts, Tesla is willing to refund the deposits which says a lot about who they are as a company. I'm very impressed.

We were not due for a new car yet but one of our cars is close to going to heaven. Calculating the cost of gas (husband works an hour away), new car payments, plus maintenance, it probably is very much worth the payments on the Tesla. Those who are looking for a new car should do the math .

My two cents

I totally agree. I've had more than a few people show some resentment that their tax dollars help pay for my car. On the upside at least by cutting cap and trade and all the government waste and liberal mismanagement hopefully we can save on our taxes and cost of living over the next few years to more than make up for it

 

[pcons]

Exactly.
A fully loaded Bolt isn’t much cheaper than a Model 3 so the millionaire rhetoric is bs. Everyone but Tesla gets till September. Why?

Sorry, but this is dead wrong. A fully loaded bolt without the destination fee is 50,950. That's SIGNIFICANTLY less than even the RWD with premium interior cost of the model 3 at 64,100. Add any paint other than black, plus other options and you can easily be at 70-80K for a model 3...which is almost double the cost of a base Bolt with no options (44k)..... I'm bothered by losing the rebate too, but the bolt and model 3 arent even in the same class, and you cant expect they will cost the same....unless you were referring to the standard range model 3 which you cant even buy yet. Plus when the standard range model 3 comes out, it wouldn't be fair to compare the base price of that to the fully loaded Bolt.

I completely agree though that its balls that Telsa is getting singled out, so I'm not flaming you, just trying to point out that your comparison on the price of the two cars is quite wrong.

For what its worth, my wife has a 2017 Bolt, I have a 2017 Volt. I'm still going ahead with my AWD model 3 purchase because its a step up from both of those cars. We considered waiting for the model 3 instead of purchasing the Bolt, but price WAS a factor in deciding the bolt over the model 3. Its a much less expensive car.

I realize emotions are high in this thread, but I felt compelled to reply to this comment being a family that owns a bolt and having owned several EVs over the years. I knew that ordering the model 3 was a risk when I did it regarding the rebates, and it is going to hurt, but I'm still going ahead with my order because I believe EVs will make ICE cars extinct...maybe not in our lifetimes, but I do hope that when my kids are my age, they will look upon ICE vehicles the same way we look at black and white TVs...which I'm just old enough to remember owning as a family before we could 'afford' a colour tv ...but I digress...

 

[Techniques]

I contacted CityNews and received and email back regarding a follow up. Hoping to get this story out there on TV to expose the mess Ford has created. Great work getting the globe and mail to print the story.

 

[Tertulian]

I totally agree. I've had more than a few people show some resentment that their tax dollars help pay for my car. On the upside at least by cutting cap and trade and all the government waste and liberal mismanagement hopefully we can save on our taxes and cost of living over the next few years to more than make up for it

Oh boy - that’s not how it works. Cap and trade was funded by selling ‘carbon credits’ to large polluting businesses. The revenue from this was then applied to green rebates. As such, the program was able to both incentivize large polluters to figure out a way to pollute less, as well as promote the adoption of clean tech solution to help that industry to grow and become competitive.

You want to know where our tax dollars are really being wasted? Subsidizing fossil fuel companies. That DOES come out of tax revenue.

 

[pcons]

I'm in the same boat as everyone else. Early reservation holder, waited patiently to configure AWD. The floodgates opened and I configured immediately on the 27th. Paid the $3200 deposit and waited. I had hoped and dreamed and wished upon stars that Ford would become too busy with other stuff and let the incentive ride out until the fund was depleted. At the very least, I'd hoped that he'd let it run it's course until Jan 1. Alas, here I am with an $80,000 (+tax) car, that was supposed to be $66,000. I can't afford this car without the incentive.

I've emailed both my local MPP as well as Minister McKenna, pleading her to put pressure on the Province to honour all existing orders including AWD until the fund is depleted. As well as pushing for a nation-wide rebate which is long overdue. In essence, the new political party is stealing money from a fund that had already been paid into and taking it away from those deserving and expectant of it. As far as I'm concerned, if the EHVIP website was still operational and the Incentive was still listed on Tesla's website, you should qualify.

There HAS to be some legal action possible here. If you've paid a $4200 non-refundable down payment on pretenses that you would qualify for a sizeable incentive, then overnight you're not - that's a bait and switch!

I've read comments in the news where people are happy that the "Tesla Tax" has finally been killed. Stating "Millionaires" don't need help paying for their cars is so aggravating and makes my blood boil. I am far from a millionaire. I have been smart with my money and I'm a conscious consumer who cares about the environment. I'm sick of paying $450 a month to pollute the air I breath. I want a well engineered vehicle from a company that is passionate and has similar values to that of my own.

I sincerely hope Tesla has pity and allows for a full refund. I can't have my heart broken twice - No Tesla AND $4200 gone...

I've read numerous spots in the thread and others where as long as you dont have a VIN assigned, you will get a full refund from Telsa. Its a silver lining on a sh*t pie, but at least you would get your 4200 back...call Tesla ASAP if you arent planning on following through with the purchase.

 

[Tertulian]

Sorry, but this is dead wrong. A fully loaded bolt without the destination fee is 50,950. That's SIGNIFICANTLY less than even the RWD with premium interior cost of the model 3 at 64,100. Add any paint other than black, plus other options and you can easily be at 70-80K for a model 3...which is almost double the cost of a base Bolt with no options (44k)..... I'm bothered by losing the rebate too, but the bolt and model 3 arent even in the same class, and you cant expect they will cost the same....unless you were referring to the standard range model 3 which you cant even buy yet. Plus when the standard range model 3 comes out, it wouldn't be fair to compare the base price of that to the fully loaded Bolt.

I completely agree though that its balls that Telsa is getting singled out, so I'm not flaming you, just trying to point out that your comparison on the price of the two cars is quite wrong.

For what its worth, my wife has a 2017 Bolt, I have a 2017 Volt. I'm still going ahead with my AWD model 3 purchase because its a step up from both of those cars. We considered waiting for the model 3 instead of purchasing the Bolt, but price WAS a factor in deciding the bolt over the model 3. Its a much less expensive car.

I realize emotions are high in this thread, but I felt compelled to reply to this comment being a family that owns a bolt and having owned several EVs over the years. I knew that ordering the model 3 was a risk when I did it regarding the rebates, and it is going to hurt, but I'm still going ahead with my order because I believe EVs will make ICE cars extinct...maybe not in our lifetimes, but I do hope that when my kids are my age, they will look upon ICE vehicles the same way we look at black and white TVs...which I'm just old enough to remember owning as a family before we could 'afford' a colour tv ...but I digress...

I hear you about the price differential, but I respectfully disagree; I believe that the short range (with luxury package) is about the same price and is the proper comparison. You can’t seriously add an extra 150km of range, autopilot, etc. and claim that that is a fair comparison. The short range truly is the best comparison and it is a fair one.

 

[McFlurri]

Sorry, but this is dead wrong. A fully loaded bolt without the destination fee is 50,950. That's SIGNIFICANTLY less than even the RWD with premium interior cost of the model 3 at 64,100. Add any paint other than black, plus other options and you can easily be at 70-80K for a model 3...which is almost double the cost of a base Bolt with no options (44k)..... I'm bothered by losing the rebate too, but the bolt and model 3 arent even in the same class, and you cant expect they will cost the same....unless you were referring to the standard range model 3 which you cant even buy yet. Plus when the standard range model 3 comes out, it wouldn't be fair to compare the base price of that to the fully loaded Bolt.

I completely agree though that its balls that Telsa is getting singled out, so I'm not flaming you, just trying to point out that your comparison on the price of the two cars is quite wrong.

For what its worth, my wife has a 2017 Bolt, I have a 2017 Volt. I'm still going ahead with my AWD model 3 purchase because its a step up from both of those cars. We considered waiting for the model 3 instead of purchasing the Bolt, but price WAS a factor in deciding the bolt over the model 3. Its a much less expensive car.

I realize emotions are high in this thread, but I felt compelled to reply to this comment being a family that owns a bolt and having owned several EVs over the years. I knew that ordering the model 3 was a risk when I did it regarding the rebates, and it is going to hurt, but I'm still going ahead with my order because I believe EVs will make ICE cars extinct...maybe not in our lifetimes, but I do hope that when my kids are my age, they will look upon ICE vehicles the same way we look at black and white TVs...which I'm just old enough to remember owning as a family before we could 'afford' a colour tv ...but I digress...

I believe they were talking about the base Model 3 vs the loaded Bolt.

Hell.. the SR Model 3 with premium upgrade package and a loaded Bolt are basically the same.

1 is an econo hatchback and 1 is a "luxury" sports sedan lol

 

[Darthbenji]

Sorry, but this is dead wrong. A fully loaded bolt without the destination fee is 50,950. That's SIGNIFICANTLY less than even the RWD with premium interior cost of the model 3 at 64,100. Add any paint other than black, plus other options and you can easily be at 70-80K for a model 3...which is almost double the cost of a base Bolt with no options (44k)..... I'm bothered by losing the rebate too, but the bolt and model 3 arent even in the same class, and you cant expect they will cost the same....unless you were referring to the standard range model 3 which you cant even buy yet. Plus when the standard range model 3 comes out, it wouldn't be fair to compare the base price of that to the fully loaded Bolt.

I completely agree though that its balls that Telsa is getting singled out, so I'm not flaming you, just trying to point out that your comparison on the price of the two cars is quite wrong.

For what its worth, my wife has a 2017 Bolt, I have a 2017 Volt. I'm still going ahead with my AWD model 3 purchase because its a step up from both of those cars. We considered waiting for the model 3 instead of purchasing the Bolt, but price WAS a factor in deciding the bolt over the model 3. Its a much less expensive car.

I realize emotions are high in this thread, but I felt compelled to reply to this comment being a family that owns a bolt and having owned several EVs over the years. I knew that ordering the model 3 was a risk when I did it regarding the rebates, and it is going to hurt, but I'm still going ahead with my order because I believe EVs will make ICE cars extinct...maybe not in our lifetimes, but I do hope that when my kids are my age, they will look upon ICE vehicles the same way we look at black and white TVs...which I'm just old enough to remember owning as a family before we could 'afford' a colour tv ...but I digress...

First of all I stand to lose nothing. I’ve had my model 3 since June 7. My point was that when you’re in the 50k range for a car you’re in the same ballpark as the model 3. Yes of course not exactly the same, but to say a 65k car is for millionaires while a 50k is for the minions is bs. To me anyway.