Out of Warranty Drive Unit Replacement and Cost

[vanR]

This guy is on his 13th drive unit in a million miles: OpenInverter Forum Thread

 

[beastman]

Based on that forum, the triple lip seal is 30x55x8 size - SUS304 SKF part for large drive unit. It would be nice to have validation from someone else using it as the replacement.

 

[ajbessinger]

I would like to bring my 2013 model S 85 to your shop. My car drive unit replaced by Tesla at 50k miles then after 80 k miles started making milling noise again. How much it will cost me to replaced or fix this drive unit? Please contact me at (949) 566-5044. Than you so much. Mark

Hi Mark,
For a Model S, a standard rebuild is $4,750 (assuming there's no catastrophic damage inside, error codes, etc.). You can reach our shop at (760)-798-0342. Just so you're aware, we are pretty backed up on cars for repair right now, so it would be quite a while before we could get to it....

 

[ajbessinger]

My 2013 p85 model s had the Du replaced in 2020 w/ 47k miles. Now have 62k miles and think this is probably a cheap investment since it's out of warranty. Biggest issue is getting the vehicle to you 400 miles away. Have you considered selling a kit w/ the drains for those willing to DIY out of the area? I have a shop and have access to a lift to perform the R&R of the DU.

The drive unit has to be removed from the car, and partially disassembled to install the drain kit (which involves drilling holes in some of the parts, and other parts need fabrication work done). You have to be extremely careful not to damage the inverter when removing and installing the cover (a used inverter would likely run you $2k+ for a base, and $3k+ for a "sport"). Also, installing the new rotor seal is also a very delicate process, and we usually have to do some amount of resurfacing on the shaft. If the proper procedures aren't followed, you could create a major leak which would require the D.U to be removed again. I'm not sure if my boss would even consider selling the drain kits for people to install themselves as there is just too much room for error without the proper experience...

If you wanted to pull the D.U. and stick it on a pallet, that would be an option (and cheaper for us to install the kit since we wouldn't be doing the R&R). I don't think it would really save you any money on shipping costs though... Your cheapest route would probably be to drive the car down, and fly back home until the car is ready to be picked up. Either that, or ship the car to us to have the work done. We pretty regularly get cars shipped in from the bay area. We've got a transporter that we work with a lot, and I think his going rate these days for that trip is ~$500-600 each way. We are so backed up with repairs right now though, that I don't know if we could give you a very reliable timeline to be fit in though...

The cheapest insurance is just to check the speed sensor on a very regular basis for any signs of coolant, and address any issues ASAP. Unfortunately checking the speed sensor is not as easy on the Model S as a RAV4 EV or Mercedes B-Class, but it is doable with just a set of ramps and basic hand tools.

 

[WallysRide]

The cheapest insurance is just to check the speed sensor on a very regular basis for any signs of coolant, and address any issues ASAP.

What kind of repair would I ask for if I found an early coolant leak this way, by checking the speed sensor? I had mine checked this summer, and there were no signs of coolant on the speed sensor. I'm willing to keep checking regularly, but not sure what could be done to save the DU if a coolant leak is ever found. Thanks in advance for your advice!

 

[brainhouston]

I'm not sure if my boss would even consider selling the drain kits for people to install themselves as there is just too much room for error without the proper experience...

Your boss sounds just like Tesla lol Who are you to decide what will i do with my car
Never understood this business model, except that someone trying to have a monopoly on certain things...
Sell the kit and let us DIYers do what we do, its not like we gonna blame you for the labor you didn't do, especially considering that you're backed up anyways...

 

[2101Guy]

What kind of repair would I ask for if I found an early coolant leak this way, by checking the speed sensor? I had mine checked this summer, and there were no signs of coolant on the speed sensor. I'm willing to keep checking regularly, but not sure what could be done to save the DU if a coolant leak is ever found. Thanks in advance for your advice!

Early detection can save the inverter from destruction. But still would require pulling the drive unit and replacing the seal

 

[Wim_V]

The drive unit has to be removed from the car, and partially disassembled to install the drain kit (which involves drilling holes in some of the parts, and other parts need fabrication work done). You have to be extremely careful not to damage the inverter when removing and installing the cover (a used inverter would likely run you $2k+ for a base, and $3k+ for a "sport"). Also, installing the new rotor seal is also a very delicate process, and we usually have to do some amount of resurfacing on the shaft. If the proper procedures aren't followed, you could create a major leak which would require the D.U to be removed again. I'm not sure if my boss would even consider selling the drain kits for people to install themselves as there is just too much room for error without the proper experience...

Hi AJ,

Could you share your source for the 3 lip coolant seal? Or do you sell these seals separately? Would be really helpful!

 

[dark cloud]

Your boss sounds just like Tesla lol Who are you to decide what will i do with my car
Never understood this business model, except that someone trying to have a monopoly on certain things...
Sell the kit and let us DIYers do what we do, its not like we gonna blame you for the labor you didn't do, especially considering that you're backed up anyways...

Unfortunately there are people in this world who would blame them for the labour they didn't do. Those whose ambition exceeds their mechanical aptitude. Even after volunteering numerous hours of proper instruction to a customer they have the drive unit fail within the year, and then write on various social media platforms and post negative reviews of the kit claiming it didn't work, telling all don't go to XXXX company, don't use company XXXX's products etc.

As an owner is this potential negative reputation and future loss of business worth making $100 for selling a kit? I wouldn't do it.

Also, why do people expect a business to give away their secrets? they absolutely have a right not to give out vital information as the business's knowledge and expertise in a particular field is the reason the business exists in the first place. I enjoy the information @ajbessinger has been sharing with us, but I honestly think his boss may think he has been sharing too much.

And I say this as a proud DIY'er.

 

[ajbessinger]

What kind of repair would I ask for if I found an early coolant leak this way, by checking the speed sensor? I had mine checked this summer, and there were no signs of coolant on the speed sensor. I'm willing to keep checking regularly, but not sure what could be done to save the DU if a coolant leak is ever found. Thanks in advance for your advice!

The drive unit would need to be removed from the car to replace the rotor coolant seal at a minimum. If caught early enough, you can mitigate the risk of damaging the rotor bearings, but usually at least the one on the end gets the grease washed out of it and would need to be replaced. If the rotor sealing surface has any pitting or grooves, it would also need to be resurfaced or sleeved to ensure good contact with the new seal.

 

[brainhouston]

Unfortunately there are people in this world who would blame them for the labour they didn't do. Those whose ambition exceeds their mechanical aptitude. Even after volunteering numerous hours of proper instruction to a customer they have the drive unit fail within the year, and then write on various social media platforms and post negative reviews of the kit claiming it didn't work, telling all don't go to XXXX company, don't use company XXXX's products etc.

As an owner is this potential negative reputation and future loss of business worth making $100 for selling a kit? I wouldn't do it.

Also, why do people expect a business to give away their secrets? they absolutely have a right not to give out vital information as the business's knowledge and expertise in a particular field is the reason the business exists in the first place. I enjoy the information @ajbessinger has been sharing with us, but I honestly think his boss may think he has been sharing too much.

And I say this as a proud DIY'er.

Yes its unfortunate that ppl like that exist n they don't deserve to be on this planet but that could happen even with full drive unit rebuild by the company.
This is always been a part of doing business, there's always gonna be unhappy/a**hole customers (i know cause we have a family business).
There has to be a happy medium between giving out secrets, right to repair, happy customers etc...
In this case its not even a secret, plenty of guides on how to do it, some ppl just prefer to get a kit vs buying all the pieces themselves...

Imagine if a car maker would not sell u parts unless u bring ur car to them for $$$$ out of warranty repairs...
Not many ppl willing to drop $5k for a 10yr old car or in general do expensive repairs.
At some point it becomes more cost effective to get a used part from a wrecked car, plenty of those around by now.

 

[howardc64]

There are a few big differences our rebuild vs. a new or remanufactured one from Tesla. For one, we use a triple lip coolant seal, similar to the originals that Tesla used from 2012-2014, and are less likely to wear out prematurely (though the early drive units had issues with bearing noise due to the use of steel rotor bearings). All the newer drive units use a single lip coolant seal, which does not seem to hold up very well... Similarly to what Tesla has been doing since ~2015, we use non-conductive hybrid ceramic rotor bearings, which prevents noise issues from occurring due to internal arcing within the bearing. Basically we tried to take all the best parts from all versions of the LDUs, and try to combine them together to make the most robust possible setup.

Thanks for many informative post on this DU (and PM replies)

According to your posts, RevQs have non metallic rotor bearings. SC tech called for 3rd DU replacement on my 2nd DU (30k miles) in 2017 when I hadn't noticed any problems (milling, whining, clunking). Tech claimed he heard milling noise. I'm pretty good at noticing noise changes in car and MS was my daily driver. Maybe SC got HQ service memo on rotor bearings update. Sounds like a lot of older cars got RevQ update.

Timing wise, seems like like Rev Qs were all rebuilds after 2015. You mentioned > 2014 DUs used single lip coolant seals. So is it true all Rev Qs have single lip coolant seal in your experience?

Looking at the result, single lip coolant seal leakage is more destructive (can damage inverter) than metallic bearings. But of course best would be to have both fix which is what your shop is doing on rebuilds along with drain modification to further reduce downstream leak impact (damage rotor bearings -> inverter electronics)

 

[Droschke]

Timing wise, seems like like Rev Qs were all rebuilds after 2015.

That's a bit puzzling to me as I received my Rev Q in October of 2017 and the invoice shows it as not remanufactured:

ASY,P-TRAIN,MECH,COMPLETE,RC (1002633-00-Q) Quantity 1
ASY,HV COVER,INVERTER (1003783-00-B) Quantity 1
BRKT, HV CBL TO DRV INV, 2MM THK, STL (1019545-00-A) Quantity 1
SCR,M6-1.0X12,PH,TORX,STL,SEMS,PATCH (1011427-00-B) Quantity 1

So is it true all Rev Qs have single lip coolant seal in your experience?

I would love to know the answer to this. So,

1) Does Rev Q have a single lip coolant seal?

2) Does Rev Q have the ceramic bearings?

 

[howardc64]

That's a bit puzzling to me as I received my Rev Q in October of 2017 and the invoice shows it as not remanufactured:

ASY,P-TRAIN,MECH,COMPLETE,RC (1002633-00-Q) Quantity 1
ASY,HV COVER,INVERTER (1003783-00-B) Quantity 1
BRKT, HV CBL TO DRV INV, 2MM THK, STL (1019545-00-A) Quantity 1
SCR,M6-1.0X12,PH,TORX,STL,SEMS,PATCH (1011427-00-B) Quantity 1

My 2013 MS85 2nd and 3rd DU invoice shows

3/4/2015 25735 miles
Concern: Please install S/O drive unit to address "clunk" from rear of vehicle on load shifts (not rectified with installation of shims)
DRIVE UNIT - BASE WITH SHIMS - REMANUFACTURED (1025276-00-K)

3/6/2017 39891 miles
ASY.P - TRAIN,RMN,,MDLS,BASE,CMC,HS,FA2+(1025276-00-A)

So I got reman 2x and RevQ in 2017 which sounds like when everyone got them.

 

[Droschke]

My 2013 MS85 2nd and 3rd DU invoice shows

3/4/2015 25735 miles
Concern: Please install S/O drive unit to address "clunk" from rear of vehicle on load shifts (not rectified with installation of shims)
DRIVE UNIT - BASE WITH SHIMS - REMANUFACTURED (1025276-00-K)

3/6/2017 39891 miles
ASY.P - TRAIN,RMN,,MDLS,BASE,CMC,HS,FA2+(1025276-00-A)

So I got reman 2x and RevQ in 2017 which sounds like when everyone got them.

Yes, I was just confused by what you had stated that the "Rev Qs were all rebuilds after 2015". I was just pointing out that the Rev. Q I received in 10/2017 was not a rebuilt DU.

 

[geordi]

My sister's 2013 P85 single motor is making an electrical sound when under power or regen braking - it sounds like higher pitched frying bacon, or what a MIG welder sounds like. The noise is pretty quiet, drives perfectly otherwise.

The service center's quote was for a reman drive unit replacement, $4800 for a revision-T unit. Any ideas why?

Is there anyone in the Northeast that could look at it and tell me if it really needs a new unit, or if the nonconductive bearings can be installed instead if that's what is making that noise? It has around 90k on it, no clue if this is the original large unit or not.

 

[Droschke]

$4800 for a revision-T unit.

I suppose the Rev T is not remanufactured?

 

[dark cloud]

There are both reman and new T units in the sport or performance size. Maybe @ajbessinger could let us know if the reman T units were once new T units, or revised Q units?

 

[Droschke]

There are both reman and new T units in the sport or performance size. Maybe @ajbessinger could let us know if the reman T units were once new T units, or revised Q units?
View attachment 848543

Maybe @ajbessinger can add more info to the rows in the table you have posted regarding the coolant seal and the bearings types That would be super useful.

 

[geordi]

Sorry - I thought I had said it (I intended to) but that didn't translate through the keyboard.

The quote was for a remanufactured P-Train Reman Sport Large 1025598-00-T and another $650 for the harness from the inverter to the rear junction box.

I repeat though: The car is driving perfectly. The ONLY symptom is this welding arc type sound. Realizing that they don't repair things at the service center, only parts swap.... Is there an option instead of someone actually fixing this for cheaper if it is just the bearings?