P3D+ Acceleration

[kbecks13]

You absolutely CAN drift in a P3D with track mode enabled, but on a good surface in a straight line, the car just hooks and GOES.

Correct, because Track Mode's goal is not to reduce traction limits in general - rather it is specifically intended to allow you to rotate the car when you ask for it. So if you have a decent amount of steering input and apply throttle, the car will try to rotate itself in that direction and will allow the rear wheels to break loose to accomplish that. In a straight line, the car doesn't need to rotate so the traction control limits are not changed.

Slip start doesn't really impact 0-60 to ability to lay rubber, unfortunately.

Agreed, it looks like a lifted Tesla. The wheel wells on this car are large so 20s look great but we just need some lighter forged versions.

Unplugged Performance has some sexy 20's that are forged, i ran these at Tesla Corsa 3 with 275 Pilot Cup 2 tires

See IG post here: Unplugged Performance on Instagram: “Track ready for Sunday’s sold out @teslacorsa 3! We will be testing quite a few new prototype parts on this customer car! #tesla…”

 

[Johnabis]

From what I have heard it doesn't help but I need to try it myself.

cool, let us know if you get a chance to try it out.

 

[raptor5244]

cool, let us know if you get a chance to try it out.

Looks like this guy did the testing for me already. Based on the video it doesn't look like you get any tire slip with Slip Mode or Track Mode. Traction Control with these electric motors seems very different than ICE vehicles. It seems more digital controlled vs. mechanical. I wish there was more technical detail on how the Tesla differentials work. My last car had Electronic - Limited Slip Differential and you can go read white papers on how it works and why it puts power down better than traditional LSD.

I like that Track Mode will let you get some slip angle but I would like if they gave us a traction control on/off option as well, at least for the M3P. I realize that if you are spinning you're not winning but I would like to feel the limit of the tires before the TC kicks in. You get a much better idea of what the limits of the car are if you know exactly what the tires are doing. The no drama approach Tesla takes is fine most of the time but performance enthusiasts will want more control. I would expect that once true sport car/coupe EVs are brought to market we will see more of this.

 

[N54TT]

Looks like this guy did the testing for me already. Based on the video it doesn't look like you get any tire slip with Slip Mode or Track Mode. Traction Control with these electric motors seems very different than ICE vehicles. It seems more digital controlled vs. mechanical. I wish there was more technical detail on how the Tesla differentials work. My last car had Electronic - Limited Slip Differential and you can go read white papers on how it works and why it puts power down better than traditional LSD.

I like that Track Mode will let you get some slip angle but I would like if they gave us a traction control on/off option as well, at least for the M3P. I realize that if you are spinning you're not winning but I would like to feel the limit of the tires before the TC kicks in. You get a much better idea of what the limits of the car are if you know exactly what the tires are doing. The no drama approach Tesla takes is fine most of the time but performance enthusiasts will want more control. I would expect that once true sport car/coupe EVs are brought to market we will see more of this.

In case you haven’t seen this. Cool Q&A with Randy Pobst about track mode since he pretty much helped Tesla tune track mode.

 

[raptor5244]

In case you haven’t seen this. Cool Q&A with Randy Pobst about track mode since he pretty much helped Tesla tune track mode.

Yeah, that was awesome. I like how accepting he was of the Model 3 EVs. Not sure how much they paid him. Anyway, having folks like Randy endorse the Performance EVs on track will help draw in a lot of ICE enthusiasts.

 

[Y4VIN]

I have wondered about brake hold’s impact on launches too. Need someone with a Dragy to stomp on it with and without brake hold to see what happens.

Maybe this has been my issue. My car has felt slow at times but I tend to get used to the acceleration of vehicles quickly so I'm thinking it's just me. I just ordered a dragy to see where I'm really at. I just used the "Speedy" app on iphone to test with and got a 4.1 today but I'm pretty sure it's innacurate. I feel way more confident having ordered the dragy.

 

[Johnabis]

I just got back from the drag strip. I had 6 runs. starting with 92% SOC. I did a mix of track mode, slip start and normal. Had interesting results.

Run 1: Slipstart - 11.718 , 114.56 MPH
Run 2: Normal - 11.740 - 114.15 MPH
Run 3 - SlipStart - 11.830 - 114.29 - I initially folded the mirrors but then they started to open up as I was racing so I wonder if that screwed up the time. was my slowest run of the night.
Run 4 - TrackMode - 11.751 - 114.52
Run 5 - Trackmode - 11.740 - 114.56
Run 6 - Normal - 11.736 - 114.48 ( I believe I was at 78% SOC at this time)

I thought for sure Slipstart is the way to go until my last run which was just a normal launch netted by 2nd fastest time and that's only at 78% SOC.

I think next time I go i'll alternate between slipstart and normal. I asked Elon on twitter the best way to launch the model 3 Performance and asked for Launch mode but I doubt he will answer.

 

[raptor5244]

I just got back from the drag strip. I had 6 runs. starting with 92% SOC. I did a mix of track mode, slip start and normal. Had interesting results.

Run 1: Slipstart - 11.718 , 114.56 MPH
Run 2: Normal - 11.740 - 114.15 MPH
Run 3 - SlipStart - 11.830 - 114.29 - I initially folded the mirrors but then they started to open up as I was racing so I wonder if that screwed up the time. was my slowest run of the night.
Run 4 - TrackMode - 11.751 - 114.52
Run 5 - Trackmode - 11.740 - 114.56
Run 6 - Normal - 11.736 - 114.58 ( I believe I was at 78% SOC at this time)

I thought for sure Slipstart is the way to go until my last run which was just a normal launch netted by 2nd fastest time and that's only at 78% SOC.

I think next time I go i'll alternate between slipstart and normal. I asked Elon on twitter the best way to launch the model 3 Performance and asked for Launch mode but I doubt he will answer.

It is amazing how consistent the car is. It is so consistent it makes it seem like it is primarily software holding it back from anything faster. I wonder what it would run if they removed all the software limits.

 

[Johnabis]

It is amazing how consistent the car is. It is so consistent it makes it seem like it is primarily software holding it back from anything faster. I wonder what it would run if they removed all the software limits.

I believe @MountainPass was working on a way to defeat traction control but I haven't seen an update in a little while. I do have a staggered setup with 10x20's in the rear so I believe if we could relax traction control then we would get better times.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I believe @MountainPass was working on a way to defeat traction control but I haven't seen an update in a little while. I do have a staggered setup with 10x20's in the rear so I believe if we could relax traction control then we would get better times.

Why do you think that would give you a better time? On a good surface there is no evidence that there is any slipping going on.

And also the maximum torque appears to be reached by 4mph. So sure you might be able to improve the rollout a tiny bit with more torque initially - but since that low jerk doesn’t appear to be there on the P100DL, the slow roll-in of torque on Model 3 (over about 0.1-0.2 seconds over the first 8-10 inches of travel of the vehicle) may be a function of the type of motor, which may constrain the maximum safe torque at very low RPM (speculation).

But in any case, even if the car had high jerk, the traction control should be a non-issue on a good surface, since the maximum torque is not enough to break the tires free in a straight line. The motor just can’t deliver enough torque to the wheels!

Unless you are saying you’d like more torque - that would of course make the car faster. But right now there is not any evidence that traction control is limiting that torque. Of course the maximum torque is software controlled (distinct from traction control since the limit is not dependent on traction), so certainly if Tesla decides it is possible to “uncork” further, they might.

 

[Johnabis]

Unless you are saying you’d like more torque - that would of course make the car faster. But right now there is not any evidence that traction control is limiting that torque. Of course the maximum torque is software controlled (distinct from traction control since the limit is not dependent on traction), so certainly if Tesla decides it is possible to “uncork” further, they might.

So yes more torque is what I want. Not sure if the motor's can't handle it or if its the software/traction control that is dampening it.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So yes more torque is what I want. Not sure if the motor's can't handle it or if its the software/traction control that is dampening it.

We should try to remove as much uncertainty from this as possible:

We can all agree that it is not the traction control, can’t we? Otherwise tire choice (and your massive wide rear tires) would make a huge difference. But it doesn’t make any difference beyond tiny changes due to weight.

So, it’s a software (not traction control) or motor limitation.

 

[raptor5244]

We should try to remove as much uncertainty from this as possible:

We can all agree that it is not the traction control, can’t we? Otherwise tire choice (and your massive wide rear tires) would make a huge difference. But it doesn’t make any difference beyond tiny changes due to weight.

So, it’s a software (not traction control) or motor limitation.

I tried some 0 - whatever pulls today and it is definitely starting to feel more like a software limitation. Maybe this is just a characteristic of EVs in general but the car is so consistent with the way it puts down power that it just feels like it is bunch software parameters controlling this. Pre-performance update these car were putting down around 450hp/471tq and then after the update around 465hp/496tq, which is more evidence of just software limitations. The question is how much more is left on the table?

Also, like you mentioned, the car reduces power at launch probably to protect the drivetrain if EV drivetrains even need protecting.

Moving forward, I wonder if EV manufacturers will be able to add back some of the “rawness” to the driving experience for us performance junkies. A car shouldn’t be this quick without a little drama. Since there is no sound, smell or shifting gears the least they could do is let us spin the tires a little bit.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I tried some 0 - whatever pulls today and it is definitely starting to feel more like a software limitation. Maybe this is just a characteristic of EVs in general but the car is so consistent with the way it puts down power that it just feels like it is bunch software parameters controlling this. Pre-performance update these car were putting down around 450hp/471tq and then after the update around 465hp/496tq, which is more evidence of just software limitations. The question is how much more is left on the table?

Also, like you mentioned, the car reduces power at launch probably to protect the drivetrain if EV drivetrains even need protecting.

Moving forward, I wonder if EV manufacturers will be able to add back some of the “rawness” to the driving experience for us performance junkies. A car shouldn’t be this quick without a little drama. Since there is no sound, smell or shifting gears the least they could do is let us spin the tires a little bit.

Certainly you are not the only one who has wanted this. But the current motor very likely cannot produce enough torque to do that, at least with good reliability. (I guess no one really knows the safe torque limit.)

The “advantage” of powerful (similar HP) ICE cars vs. the Model 3 is they can put a LOT more torque at the wheels at launch...due to gearing. Personally it seems like not an advantage to me unless you like to buy tires and clutches. But everyone has different preferences.

 

[mongo]

Certainly you are not the only one who has wanted this. But the current motor very likely cannot produce enough torque to do that, at least with good reliability. (I guess no one really knows the safe torque limit.)

The “advantage” of powerful (similar HP) ICE cars vs. the Model 3 is they can put a LOT more torque at the wheels at launch...due to gearing. Personally it seems like not an advantage to me unless you like to buy tires and clutches. But everyone has different preferences.

This

In an ICE, the low gear(s) needed to match the low power end of the RPM curve to the worst case uphill dead stop to start transition also mean that you can break traction if you are higher in the power band.

For Tesla/ EVs in general, they know ahead of time what the max friction is and vehicle weight and use that to design the motor/ drive electronics combination to match. So you end up with a design peak torque/ current that matches up with the real world limits of physics.

In actuality, the parts would be build for higher performance and then run at a lower power to reduce wear and part stress thus extending lifespan. So the software is running the motor below the true max limit.

 

[Orwell]

Do you have pictures? How do they look?

Nice setup

 

[juanmedina]

View attachment 428798View attachment 428799View attachment 428800

Is that at stock ride height? That looks good and clean IMO

 

[Orwell]

Is that at stock ride height? That looks good and clean IMO

Yes stock height. Trying to find time to install my MPP Sport coilovers.

It took a lot of work to make the wheels fit. Had a wheel repair machine shop drill the bolt holes to M14. They inserted a M14 sized steel insert with the 60 degree lug nut angle. Then I had to get a 5mm spacer to clear the hub lip, and lastly had to shave the brake calipers.

The feel is amazing with these lightweight wheels. Change of direction is easier, steering is much lighter even in Sport, car accelerates faster at all speeds, overall feels much lighter on its feet.

Best part is I got them new for only $1200.

 

[dfwatt]

Certainly you are not the only one who has wanted this. But the current motor very likely cannot produce enough torque to do that, at least with good reliability. (I guess no one really knows the safe torque limit.)

The “advantage” of powerful (similar HP) ICE cars vs. the Model 3 is they can put a LOT more torque at the wheels at launch...due to gearing. Personally it seems like not an advantage to me unless you like to buy tires and clutches. But everyone has different preferences.

For many decades, lots of engine noise and wheelspin were ASSOCIATED WITH powerful acceleration, such that they became independent memes in a sense. But they were bugs, not features (borrowing from Microsoft!). The strong push in the back has been separated from those things by the evolution of EV tech - and it's interesting how some of us (but not everyone) are in mourning and want them put back in their original association. I sometimes feel that way too, but mostly I appreciate how stealthy the P3 is - .9 Gs of acceleration without a wit of noise. Because it's so quiet, people don't have any concept of how fast the car is - it just disappears down the road, making barely a whisper.

 

[raptor5244]

For many decades, lots of engine noise and wheelspin were ASSOCIATED WITH powerful acceleration, such that they became independent memes in a sense. But they were bugs, not features (borrowing from Microsoft!). The strong push in the back has been separated from those things by the evolution of EV tech - and it's interesting how some of us (but not everyone) are in mourning and want them put back in their original association. I sometimes feel that way too, but mostly I appreciate how stealthy the P3 is - .9 Gs of acceleration without a wit of noise. Because it's so quiet, people don't have any concept of how fast the car is - it just disappears down the road, making barely a whisper.

I do miss a good V8 exhaust note from time to time but as a performance enthusiast it is so weird for a car to be this quick with so little drama. It kind of ruins it for all other cars. One of the greatest things about the M3 is how versatile it is, fast, no gas, less maintenance, more comfortable, etc. I don't know if I could ever go back to an ICE based car again at this point.