P3D Owner Sit-in?

[whatthe2]

I paid for the performance package. I did not receive all of that package at delivery and neither has anyone else.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not following you. You paid for the Performance Upgrade Package, but you took delivery of a car without PUP? Why would you do that? And how has no one else that paid for PUP, not received it? Plenty of people have.

Or are you trying to say that you bought Performance, without PUP, and now that it's free you should receive it? I'm guessing that's what you mean, but very confusing what you are saying.

 

[Knightshade]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not following you. You paid for the Performance Upgrade Package, but you took delivery of a car without PUP? Why would you do that? And how has no one else that paid for PUP, not received it? Plenty of people have.

Or are you trying to say that you bought Performance, without PUP, and now that it's free you should receive it? I'm guessing that's what you mean, but very confusing what you are saying.

I assume they're talking about the badge and spoiler nobody has gotten yet

 

[Nocturnal]

Nor should you, since you are factually wrong about it.

Higher trims of cars getting cheaper don't equal a dollar-for-dollar depreciation of lower trims of the same model.

That's not how depreciation works.

How do you figure? My exact car is 5k cheaper now. A potential buyer looking to buy my P3D+ vs a new one will definitely see that price differential and account for it in resale value. My car depreciated at least 4k overnight. That depreciation will also impact P3D- cars as well.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not following you. You paid for the Performance Upgrade Package, but you took delivery of a car without PUP? Why would you do that? And how has no one else that paid for PUP, not received it? Plenty of people have.

Or are you trying to say that you bought Performance, without PUP, and now that it's free you should receive it? I'm guessing that's what you mean, but very confusing what you are saying.

I did not receive the spoiler, and neither has anyone else. If we want to be technical Tesla has failed to meet their end of the contract. The fact that the package is now free just rubs salt into the wound.

 

[whatthe2]

I assume they're talking about the badge and spoiler nobody has gotten yet

Ahhh, that makes sense, thank you. Very confusing wording.

 

[Knightshade]

How do you figure? My exact car is 5k cheaper now. A potential buyer looking to buy my P3D+ vs a new one will definitely see that price differential and account for it in resale value. My car depreciated at least 4k overnight.

I agree the P3D+ lost significant value as you describe and never said otherwise.

I mean you quoted what I said word for word and still somehow got it wrong?

Higher trims of cars getting cheaper don't equal a dollar-for-dollar depreciation of lower trims of the same model.

Bolded the relevant part you seem to have missed.

That depreciation will also impact P3D- cars as well.

It's possible that it will. Then again since a lot of people apparently prefered the P3D- over the P3D+ (and many said they wouldn't have wanted the 20s for example at any price) it's obvious at least SOME buyers will be happy enough to pay for whichever one goes 0-60 in 3.5 and not really care about the red calipers they'll never get any use out of on the street anyway.

But it's certain that it's not a dollar-for-dollar depreciation.


Again- if the highest trim of a model is cut by X dollars, that does not immediately depreciate the used version of all the lower trims by X dollars as well.

 

[ohmman]

This thread is littered with people claiming that anyone upset by the price change is entitled or unreasonable. Particularly people that are not impacted and don't own a 3. IMO, that isn't far off from trolling.

Trolling generally means making comments with the sole purpose of eliciting an emotional reaction. Typically this implies that the person making the comment doesn't strongly believe in what they're saying, they only are saying it for the response. In some cases, what you describe can qualify. If anyone sees this behavior at TMC, use the "Report" button at the bottom of the post. The post will be reviewed and may or may not be removed. A number of factors go into the decision, including context and assumed intent as well as whether or not the receiving party takes the comment as offensive. Sometimes these things resolve themselves between parties and they end up being a good example of mutual resolution.

I do not read everything here by a long shot. I do, however, read and respond to reports. Those are the best way to get the attention of a moderator if you see behavior that violates the terms of this site.

 

[Nocturnal]

I agree the P3D+ lost significant value as you describe and never said otherwise.

I mean you quoted what I said word for word and still somehow got it wrong?


Bolded the relevant part you seem to have missed.

It's possible that it will. Then again since a lot of people apparently prefered the P3D- over the P3D+ (and many said they wouldn't have wanted the 20s for example at any price) it's obvious at least SOME buyers will be happy enough to pay for whichever one goes 0-60 in 3.5 and not really care about the red calipers they'll never get any use out of on the street anyway.

But it's certain that it's not a dollar-for-dollar depreciation.


Again- if the highest trim of a model is cut by X dollars, that does not immediately depreciate the used version of all the lower trims by X dollars as well.

Are you new to forums? It's pretty common not to read an entire trail of comments and not understand 100% of a particular post. It happens. I did not take your comment to mean that, thank you for clarifying.

 

[Jeffers0n]

So trying to retrofit a ton of cars with factory options after they left the factory under those conditions seems like a pretty awful idea.

They have already done this before:
Model S Brake Calipers Set

There can't be that many P3Ds without PUP that they have sold. Besides, not all P3D owners would want this. Would be a nice option to have and good customer support.

 

[Knightshade]

They have already done this before:
Model S Brake Calipers Set

yes- on a model that they were producing in 5x smaller numbers, and through service centers that weren't 5x as badly understaffed, overworked, and backlogged.

On top of which, those are just the calipers. You'd need to change a ton more on the P3D- to make it a P3D+... hubs, rotors, suspension parts, etc.

So even more cost, backlog of parts, and backlog of already overbooked service center time.


I agree it would be a nice gesture- but it doesn't seem like a very practical one.

 

[Nocturnal]

yes- on a model that they were producing in 5x smaller numbers, and through service centers that weren't 5x as badly understaffed, overworked, and backlogged.

On top of which, those are just the calipers. You'd need to change a ton more on the P3D- to make it a P3D+... hubs, rotors, suspension parts, etc.

So even more cost, backlog of parts, and backlog of already overbooked service center time.


I agree it would be a nice gesture- but it doesn't seem like a very practical one.

I'd have to think that anyone in that position would prefer to get the cash and just do aftermarket. Bringing those cars in house for upgrades would be a disaster.

 

[Knightshade]

I'd have to think that anyone in that position would prefer to get the cash and just do aftermarket. Bringing those cars in house for upgrades would be a disaster.

I think that would depend on if they want track mode- since so far only P3D+ cars with factory upgraded brakes are getting that and it remains unclear when or if that will change (and to what degree- like will there be a, to borrow a phrase, "inferior" track mode for P3D- cars?)

 

[Glamisduner]

So, first, that'd still put you $2500 ahead.... and second the change fee on an order is only $500.

Frequently Asked Questions - Ordering a Tesla

Except that people still bought the P3D- based on Elon's tweet that they would 5k back.
Also I was denied being able to change my order (not a pup thing) after assigned a vin.

But you can make it $0 easy enough. Remember you get 2 days to return the car for a full refund AFTER delivery (or you can reject it for free- and since they're only building P3D+ cars now you can get one as a replacement )

with the stipulation that you cannot buy another model 3 for a year.

Of course they are.

According to you making a "superior" version of the car cheaper TOTALLY lowers the value of the "inferior" versions of that car.

That includes, according to you, P3D- and AWD and RWD.

No it does not, The price for AWD and RWD remain the same they were simply overcharging for the P3D- / P3D+ varients.

Since that outcome would be awesome for Tesla and increase their profits- since the P3D- is just a software flash of the AWD and costs them nothing extra to make.

So therefore your reason can't be the actual reason.

The pricing structure pushes people to pay 11k more instead of 5k more if they want performance. Now that people know what they are getting with PUP (wasn't clear until recently) it's easier to sell especially when you show a price drop.

Why didn't I buy PUP? I had to chose between PUP and EAP. As much as I wanted PUP I figured I would use EAP more. I didn't know that if I would have bought PUP I would have been able to buy EAP for $500, otherwise I obviously would not have paid 5k for it.

Why are you here? You don't own a P3D or even a model 3. You obviously trolling the P3D- customers. Adding you to the ignored list.

 

[Knightshade]

Except that people still bought the P3D- based on Elon's tweet that they would 5k back.

How'd they do that?

I ask because not only was the tweet not clear on that point, the P3D- was no longer available to order when it was made.

E
Also I was denied being able to change my order (not a pup thing) after assigned a vin.

First you told us it was $2500 to make a change (despite Teslas own FAQ saying it's $500)- now you claim you can't change at all?

You should try and get your story straight.

But if you really think you are getting, as you've said, an "inferior" and "overpriced" car then just reject the delivery.

That's free.

Or if the story in your sig is accurate, good news!

Friday will be 30 days your car has been out of service in an attempt to repair.

You will be entitled to a full refund under Californias Lemon Law- then you can buy the "superior" P3D+ you really wanted apparently!

No it does not, The price for AWD and RWD remain the same

So did the price for the P3D-

In fact that seems to be the exact thing you're mad about!

Why are you here? You don't own a P3D or even a model 3. You obviously trolling the P3D- customers. Adding you to the ignored list.

You've already been corrected on this lie once before.

Why do you keep telling it?

But sure- keep ignoring facts and math- THAT will get you someplace!

I shall follow your future progress with considerable interest

 

[eyespii]

Except that people still bought the P3D- based on Elon's tweet that they would 5k back.
Also I was denied being able to change my order (not a pup thing) after assigned a vin.



with the stipulation that you cannot buy another model 3 for a year.



No it does not, The price for AWD and RWD remain the same they were simply overcharging for the P3D- / P3D+ varients.



The pricing structure pushes people to pay 11k more instead of 5k more if they want performance. Now that people know what they are getting with PUP (wasn't clear until recently) it's easier to sell especially when you show a price drop.

Why didn't I buy PUP? I had to chose between PUP and EAP. As much as I wanted PUP I figured I would use EAP more. I didn't know that if I would have bought PUP I would have been able to buy EAP for $500, otherwise I obviously would not have paid 5k for it.

Why are you here? You don't own a P3D or even a model 3. You obviously trolling the P3D- customers. Adding you to the ignored list.

I get why it feels like you got a raw deal on your P3D-. People that buy the P3D now get a “better optioned” car than you did when you bought yours, for the same money. Sucks, I get it. But I still think there’s a difference between people who pay extra for something that becomes free vs choosing not to pay for something which then gets discounted later.

If AWD dropped from $5000 to $3000 overnight, would you also argue that RWD buyers should get a $2000 refund? Or what if white interior became free? Should black interior owners get a $1500 back?

 

[Uncle Paul]

People that got their cars already, also qualify for the full $7,500 tax credit.
Those ordering now, even at a lower price most likely will only get 1/2 that.

 

[Glamisduner]

I get why it feels like you got a raw deal on your P3D-. People that buy the P3D now get a “better optioned” car than you did when you bought yours, for the same money. Sucks, I get it. But I still think there’s a difference between people who pay extra for something that becomes free vs choosing not to pay for something which then gets discounted later.

AWD price drop is different. Initially AWD was a 4k option, if you were a reservation holder and ordered when allowed to do so you were locked into the original price. AWD Reservation holders were not price punished.

Because so many people were switching over to AWD and Tesla could not keep up with demand (and because they over produced RWDs) they temporarily increased the price. Currently it is back to the original price. I'm not sure many people actually paid the additional 2k as the cars were so back ordered most people still didn't have them by the time the price dropped back to normal. If they did they were likely customers jumping the line in freemont.

While it would still suck (as I posted in that thread) it's not nearly as bad because
1) it's only 2k
2) Tesla isn't saying AWDs with sport wheels get $2k back and AWD's with aero wheels get nothing. This would a bit more similar to what has happened to PUP.

If AWD dropped from $5000 to $3000 overnight, would you also argue that RWD buyers should get a $2000 refund?

No like I said AWD users are not affect by the PUP price change, their pricing has not changed and this is a terrible example. AWD did drop from 6k back to 4k overnight, and yes people were upset.

A more similar example would be If AWD was suddenly offered free to everyone and RWD discontinued, and then Elon musk tweeted we will refund all AWD buyers to make them the same price as the RWD cars were but RWD will be discontinued and get nothing. Then YES I feel like that is lousy treatment of reservation holders and also not fair. I would be very upset about the treatment of RWD people vs AWDs.

Or what if white interior became free? Should black interior owners get a $1500 back?

Color is a preference thing you don't have to pay extra for. It's not like the white interior comes with power seats and the black has manual seats.

So to make that comparison work. You would have to say black interior seats are manual and white interior gets power. Then white power seats become offered free and Elon says he will refund $1500 for the people who purchased the white power seats, but if you bought manual black seats you get nothing. Otherwise it's a bad comparison as it's just a color preference. PUP is adding Physical differences and improvements and software, not a color choices.

I also lost $500 on the white interior price drop the day after I ordered, I thought damn that sucks, but it's not nearly the hit of a 5k PUP....

While the 5k PUP is a huge hit, what bothers me the most is that 1/2 the people with performance get their upgrade free and the other 1/2 gets nothing. I'll say it again, I never said P3D- should get 5k back, but something sure would be nice when your treating PUP buyers so special. I still paid 80k for the damn car just because I paid for software instead of parts I get reservation holder punished and I don't even get the car sooner than anyone else.

 

[Glamisduner]

People that got their cars already, also qualify for the full $7,500 tax credit.
Those ordering now, even at a lower price most likely will only get 1/2 that.

They still get priority, cars ordered now will still most likely be receive them by the end of the year. Also when the price changed was announced it was almost guaranteed you would get the full tax credit if you bit. Delivery times have since increased on the AWD Performance though. But even then, the Tax Incentive should be an incentive and not built into the vehicle price.

 

[Knightshade]

While it would still suck (as I posted in that thread) it's not nearly as bad because
1) it's only 2k

What specific number of dollars does one need to lose before they're allowed to be upset about it?

2) Tesla isn't saying AWDs with sport wheels get $2k back and AWD's with aero wheels get nothing. This would a bit more similar to what has happened to PUP.

They aren't saying that because the price on the sport wheels didn't change... so that doesn't really hold up very well.

But if a guy ordered a RWD when it was 6k to upgrade to AWD, he might very well, by your "logic" insist he is "owed" $2000 when they drop AWD back to 4k... I mean his "inferior" car is worth 2k less now since the upgrade option he did not even buy got cheaper, right? That's literally your argument

It doesn't make much sense though.

No like I said AWD users are not affect by the PUP price change, their pricing has not changed

Neither has P3D- pricing.

Which is the point you keep refusing to get.

and this is a terrible example.

It's only terrible for your argument- because it makes a valid point.

A more similar example would be If AWD was suddenly offered free to everyone and RWD discontinued, and then Elon musk tweeted we will refund all AWD buyers to make them the same price as the RWD cars were but RWD will be discontinued and get nothing. Then YES I feel like that is lousy treatment of reservation holders and also not fair. I would be very upset about the treatment of RWD people vs AWDs.

Is this because $2000 isn't "much" money but $6000 is? Because that seems to be your main criteria for when a price change is "bad"

Color is a preference thing you don't have to pay extra for.

Performance is a preference thing too. So is the PUP.

Your preference was to buy one, but not the other.

Heck for that matter- for folks who don't track their car the PUP actually offers less functional benefit than a white interior offers someone in a very hot climate.... the white interior is cooler... the PUP does nothing except saddle them with crap range on heavy wheels and give them more expensive brake repairs eventually.

I also lost $500 on the white interior price drop the day after I ordered, I thought damn that sucks, but it's not nearly the hit of a 5k PUP....

So again, what's the specific dollar amount where you're allowed to be mad and below which you're not?

 

[chronopc]

AWD price drop is different. Initially AWD was a 4k option, if you were a reservation holder and ordered ASAP you were locked into the original price. Because so many people were switching over to AWD and Tesla could not keep up with demand (and because they over produced RWDs) they temporarily increased the price. Currently it is back to the original price. I'm not sure many people actually paid the additional 2k as the cars were so back ordered most people still didn't have them by the time the price dropped back to normal. If they did they were likely customers jumping the line in freemont.

While it would still suck (as I posted in that thread) it's not nearly as bad because
1) it's only 2k
2) Tesla isn't saying AWDs wtih even vins get $2k back and AWD's with odd vins get nothing.


Color is a preference thing you don't have to pay extra for. It's not like the white interior comes with power seats and the black has manual seats.

So to make that comparison work. You would have to say black interior seats are manual and white interior gets power. Then white power seats become offered free and Elon says he will refund $1500 for the people who purchased the white power seats, but if you bought manual black seats you get nothing. Otherwise it's a bad comparison as it's just a color preference. PUP is adding Physical differences improvements, not a color choices.

I also lost $500 on the white interior price drop the day after I ordered, I thought damn that sucks, but it's not nearly the hit of a 5k option.

While the 5k PUP is a huge hit, what bothers me the most is that 1/2 the people with performance get their upgrade free and the other 1/2 gets nothing. I'll say it again, I never said P3D- should get 5k back, but something sure would be nice when your treating PUP buyers special.

I get your frustration but I don't agree that Tesla owes you anything. When an option becomes a standard feature, people who paid for option are not entitled to any sort of compensation. As a courteous, a company may offer people who purchased within a time frame a refund if they want to, but even then they are not obligated to do so. Tesla only owes you what was agreed to in your purchase agreement.

 

[Glamisduner]

I get your frustration but I don't agree that Tesla owes you anything. When an option becomes a standard feature, people who paid for option are not entitled to any sort of compensation. As a courteous, a company may offer people who purchased within a time frame a refund if they want to, but even then they are not obligated to do so. Tesla only owes you what was agreed to in your purchase agreement.

But my car is still in service since delivered! And Elon said so.

I never said they owe me anything, just that I feel completely used and I don't have be happy with the entire experience, or being slapped twice in a week after delivery of a car I should have rejected a second time. Would you be happy if you were in my shoes?
I also think the treatment is very unfair to P3D- purchasers, and punishes reservation holders who waited the longest. I never said anything was legally owed to me, but we don't have to be happy about it and it should influence our future purchases.

With Tesla's buying model everyone pays the same price, unless your me, then it will be an extra ~8k for the same thing.

Put it this way. I drove around a lemon focus for 5 years. Constant repairs, design flaws etc. Ford took care of all of them, and even bought the car back as a lemon in the end (after getting an attorney, but without too any additional hassle). I'd still buy another ford, maybe not a car, but I doubt I would buy another tesla.