P3D Owner Sit-in?

[jeffro01]

This is absurd. This is the kind of attitude that will prevent Tesla from ever being a truly mainstream car company. As if all consumers have the time or energy to investigate every aspect of how Tesla does business in hopes to predict the future... Keep evangelizing the brand this way. I'm sure Tesla will go far belittling people the way you do.

No, what's absurd here is your entitlement and whining... This is a major purchase, are you seriously going to make the argument that people should just spend boat loads of money without even researching what they are buying?

You really need to get over yourself, fast...

Jeff

 

[Glamisduner]

No, what's absurd here is your entitlement and whining... This is a major purchase, are you seriously going to make the argument that people should just spend boat loads of money without even researching what they are buying?

You really need to get over yourself, fast...

Jeff

I disagree but let me explain why. Tesla would not tell anyone what was included in PUP when it was released, so there was no additional research to be done.

 

[Knightshade]

But the engine thing would have me irate. Also, seems very coincidental that the badges and spoilers were left off

Why would it have you irate?

Companies sell differently tuned versions of the same car all the time (changing the amount of boost on a turbo car for example)

The higher price covers potentially higher warranty costs, and then the rest is extra profit- which is common on higher end models of a vehicle.

The fact all LR Model 3s have the same drive units, but the P models have software allowing more performance, doesn't change the fact you get exactly the performance you pay for.

 

[Glamisduner]

Right- because they chose to spend $5000 on something now free, so they get a refund of that 5k.



So they're exactly where they were before any of this happened. They didn't "lose" anything at all. They didn't pay actual money for something that's now being given away free.

Which is why it's nonsensical THOSE people think they "deserve" $5000.




objection- facts not in evidence.

The P3D+ owners were- since someone could now buy a "new" car like their for $5000 less.

The P3D- isn't even sold anymore. And was never sold cheaper than what you paid for it. (ignoring the weirdo things like the paint color prices changing)




So all the P3D- folks who skipped the performance package intentionally (not just because they couldn't afford it) were buying "inferior" cars?

I guess RWD and AWD owners REALLY bought some garbage, huh?





Not really.

That's why those who paid for what is now free are getting their money back.

P3D- owners never paid for it in the first place.

Your inability to see any difference there is frankly bizarre.



They spend exactly the same as you did on the Performance Upgrade Package.

So they are just as entitled to a refund of every cent they paid for it as you are.

Which is $0.00




Same with you- your cars pricing remained the same until the day they stopped selling it.




YM
Break
HTH




But you didn't do that.

You got exactly what you paid for.

If they had suddenly cut the price of the P3D- by $5000 your description would make sense for your situation- they didn't.

They don't even sell it at all anymore, and never sold it cheaper.





I'm sorry you consider facts and math to be trolling.

I'm sure you feel entitled to better.

The Non PUP upgrade was sold 5k cheaper than PUP. That's the only price it was ever sold at. They discontinued it because no one is going to buy non PUP when you get aluminum pedals, spoiler, Track mode, better wheels and tires and larger brakes for the same price. if they reduced the price It would become too close to AWD pricing and no one would opt for AWD. They didn't discontinue it as a less popular but equal option as you are implying.

They spend exactly the same as you did on the Performance Upgrade Package.

So they are just as entitled to a refund of every cent they paid for it as you are.

Which is $0.00

Right the difference being I don't have a PUP now and have an inferior car. I don't even have my car yet but I'm paying more for less and Elon is solving the problem by giving 1/2 the people 100% back and shafting the other 1/2. Not cool, and I will never be happy about this.

RWD and AWD owners cars are still the same price, I don't know why you keep bringing them into this they have NOTHING to do with any of this. Your trolling hard! According to you, you would be happy to pay for EAP and FSD while your car is still on order, while Elon decides to give them away free for everyone else, and refund to everyone who bought EAP and FSD but drive cars that are a different color than yours. This example pretty much sums up what your saying, and I don't believe it for a second.

The P3D+ owners were- since someone could now buy a "new" car like their for $5000 less.

Who is going to buy an inferior car for the same price? Just because they don't offer the non PUP car anymore doesn't mean THAT it didn't take a price hit, for sure the car is now worth way less.

If you failed basic math in grade school this might not be the place to argue.

 

[MXWing]

What everyone doesn't know is @Glamisduner had a more difficult experience than a lot of people. Difficulty getting his car, and his car coming with a lot of defects. I think his car is still in the shop?

Perception of losing 5K value almost immediately after taking delivery of a car, and having that car lose the value while it is in the shop is a double whammy and compounds the frustration.

Tesla owes @Glamisduner something, but that is unrelated to PUPGate.

With that said:

I bought EAP instead of PUP, I spent the same amount of money on performance. For everyone who bought pup they get theirm moneyback.

At a cost! I have to give up FUSC which sucks. But I have a choice. Better than no choice. All 3P- get FUSC where some did not, so it equalized all those cars. You don't get 5000 back because you didn't spend 5000 more. You are "stuck" with FUSC as a "bonus" but better than nothing.

Awd and rwd buyers did not spend the same amount of money and did not buy either performance option. Their cars pricing still remains the same. They are not affected.

Their car value both new and used is depreciated.

750K house in 1 million house neighborhood is a great deal.
750K house in 850K neighborhood (150k price drop) makes that 750K house less valuable.

 

[juanmedina]

What everyone doesn't know is @Glamisduner had a more difficult experience than a lot of people. Difficulty getting his car, and his car coming with a lot of defects. I think his car is still in the shop?

Perception of losing 5K value almost immediately after taking delivery of a car, and having that car lose the value while it is in the shop is a double whammy and compounds the frustration.

Tesla owes @Glamisduner something, but that is unrelated to PUPGate.

With that said:



At a cost! I have to give up FUSC which sucks. But I have a choice. Better than no choice. All 3P- get FUSC where some did not, so it equalized all those cars. You don't get 5000 back because you didn't spend 5000 more. You are "stuck" with FUSC as a "bonus" but better than nothing.



Their car value both new and used is depreciated.

750K house in 1 million house neighborhood is a great deal.
750K house in 850K neighborhood (150k price drop) makes that 750K house less valuable.

FUSC is not transferable if we sell the car that is why we are making a big deal out of this. Give us PUP, EAP or FSD..

 

[whatthe2]

What?

No it isn't. Comparing a 2 month old car to a TV is ridiculous. Total apples and oranges. There isn't any scenario where you can buy a brand new car at half price because the new model is out. That does happen with consumer electronics.

I do agree that they don't explicitly owe anything, it's a goodwill gesture. Although I could certainly make an argument that the original PUP price I agreed on is invalid because I didn't receive the full package at delivery. My contract says $5k for PUP, I paid 5k but did not receive the package.

If you paid for PUP, how did you not receive it? It's very obvious differences in the car.

 

[Knightshade]

The Non PUP upgrade was sold 5k cheaper than PUP. That's the only price it was ever sold at.[/B]

Right- so there's no "refund" due to you- since you didn't actually PAY for something now free.

I mean- there's literally no spent money to be refunded for P3D- owners.

They discontinued it because no one is going to buy non PUP when you get aluminum pedals, spoiler, Track mode, better wheels and tires and larger brakes for the same price.

Many consider them inferior wheels- incluidng a lot of people vocally stating that as the reason they skipped the $5000 package.

if they reduced the price It would become too close to AWD pricing and no one would opt for AWD

This makes no sense.

As far as we've seen and the parts catalog shows, the HW is exactly the same between AWD and P3D-

If they reduced P3D- by 5k (meaning it was 5-7k more than AWD, depending how much the AWD upgrade is this week) and "everyone" went for that upgrade, tesla would be much better off financially

Therefore that can't be the reason they discontinued it.

. They didn't discontinue it as a less popular but equal option as you are implying.

I did not state, or imply, any such a thing.

Right the difference being I don't have a PUP now and have an inferior car.

You didn't have PUP before either. You intentionally chose not to buy it.

Again- are you saying AWD cars are "inferior" to Ps? And RWDs are "inferior" to all the rest?

Why did you buy a car you felt was inferior in the first place?

I don't even have my car yet but I'm paying more for less

You're paying exactly what the car cost when you ordered it- no more, and getting exactly what you ordered- no less.

I don't know your whole "don't even have the car yet" story... if it hasn't been delivered then just change the order to PUP.

If it's in the shop since delivery perhaps check the lemon laws of your state for a buyback

and Elon is solving the problem by giving 1/2 the people 100% back and shafting the other 1/2.

No, he's giving 100% of the people a full refund of what they paid for the Performance Upgrade Pack.


For P3D+ owners that's $5000

For everyone else it's $0.00

RWD and AWD owners cars are still the same price,

So were P3D- cars up to the day they stopped selling them.

I don't know why you keep bringing them into this they have NOTHING to do with any of this. Your trolling hard!

No, I'm facting hard. Your inability to tell the difference notwithstanding.

You are claiming that a price cut on a DIFFERENT version of the model 3 hurts YOUR, as you call it, "inferior" version.

Therefore if true it would hurt OTHER "inferior" versions of the same car.

According to you, you would be happy to pay for EAP and FSD while your car is still on order, while Elon decides to give them away free for everyone else, and refund to everyone who bought EAP and FSD but drive cars that are a different color than yours. This example pretty much sums up what your saying, and I don't believe it for a second.

I don't either- since that's not at all what I'm saying.

And in fact tesla has cut the price on options in between order and delivery many times and always refunded the difference prior to delivery.

This is a discussion about POST delivery price changes. Specifically a price change on something you didn't even buy

That's why it's so weird you want a refund for something you never purchased.

 

[Jeffers0n]

That's why it's so weird you want a refund for something you never purchased.

If you can't understand that the P3D- and P3D+ both depreciated by $5K because of the price drop of the add-on then it's not worth arguing with you over it. I see the argument not to give $5K back to P3D- owners, but I don't see the argument of not offering a PUP upgrade to them in exchange for giving up free supercharging. That puts the P3D- and P3D+ in the exact same position. I wanted PUP, but thought it was a bad value. That doesn't mean I wouldn't take it for free. In my case, I already had free supercharging before all of this, so this is no added benefit.

 

[Glamisduner]

Right- so there's no "refund" due to you- since you didn't actually PAY for something now free.

I mean- there's literally no spent money to be refunded for P3D- owners.



Many consider them inferior wheels- incluidng a lot of people vocally stating that as the reason they skipped the $5000 package.




This makes no sense.

As far as we've seen and the parts catalog shows, the HW is exactly the same between AWD and P3D-

If they reduced P3D- by 5k (meaning it was 5-7k more than AWD, depending how much the AWD upgrade is this week) and "everyone" went for that upgrade, tesla would be much better off financially

Therefore that can't be the reason they discontinued it.




I did not state, or imply, any such a thing.




You didn't have PUP before either. You intentionally chose not to buy it.

Again- are you saying AWD cars are "inferior" to Ps? And RWDs are "inferior" to all the rest?

Why did you buy a car you felt was inferior in the first place?




You're paying exactly what the car cost when you ordered it- no more, and getting exactly what you ordered- no less.

I don't know your whole "don't even have the car yet" story... if it hasn't been delivered then just change the order to PUP.

If it's in the shop since delivery perhaps check the lemon laws of your state for a buyback




No, he's giving 100% of the people a full refund of what they paid for the Performance Upgrade Pack.


For P3D+ owners that's $5000

For everyone else it's $0.00





So were P3D- cars up to the day they stopped selling them.



No, I'm facting hard. Your inability to tell the difference notwithstanding.

You are claiming that a price cut on a DIFFERENT version of the model 3 hurts YOUR, as you call it, "inferior" version.

Therefore if true it would hurt OTHER "inferior" versions of the same car.




I don't either- since that's not at all what I'm saying.

And in fact tesla has cut the price on options in between order and delivery many times and always refunded the difference prior to delivery.

This is a discussion about POST delivery price changes. Specifically a price change on something you didn't even buy

That's why it's so weird you want a refund for something you never purchased.

Does adding big spacing between your points make you feel more important. Did I ever say I expected a refund? Stop putting words in my mouth.

I am paying the same price for my P3D- as people who purchased the P3D with PUP, or are purchasing their P3D with PUP. This DOES NOT MAKE ME HAPPY. What is less fair is that Elon is giving refunds to P3D+ buyers and nothing to P3D- as the price hit hits both groups of people hard. Yes it hurts the value of my car I now I have car missing a bunch of things that other performance cars that cost the SAME price have.

You Keep insisting that P3D- is not inferior but let me spell it out again. Missing the following:
- aluminum brake pedals
- spoiler
- larger brakes
- larger better wheels
- better tires
- track mode
You are claiming these things add no value. Yep inferior, yes AWD and RWD are inferior to PO3D too, they also didn't cost nearly as much so that makes sense.

Your claiming that if EAP and FSD becomes free, that the values of peoples cars that did not purchase them would not be affected, you are greatly mistaken.

If your car has not been delivered you do not have the option to just change the car to PUP, you have to take pay $2500 cancellation fee and get back in the end of the line.

Again stop bringing AWD and RWD cars into this, they are not affected by the price drop.

My P3D- is not 5-7k more than AWD. It was 11k more.

Do you even have a model 3? If not, then why are you here?

 

[Zaxxon]

 

[deeterm]

All you people wanting full self driving are fooling yourself. The Informations lattest deep dive into Tesla auto pilot said they are working on onramps and off ramps next year and hopefully right turns. Meanwhile waymo will have 30+ unmaned cars driving around San Fransisco. They mastered right turns 7 years ago.

Also why do you guys care so much about unlimited super charging? In the 6 years I've owned a model s I've supercharged twice.

 

[juanmedina]

All you people wanting full self driving are fooling yourself. The Informations lattest deep dive into Tesla auto pilot said they are working on onramps and off ramps next year and hopefully right turns. Meanwhile waymo will have 30+ unmaned cars driving around San Fransisco. They mastered right turns 7 years ago.

Also why do you guys care so much about unlimited super charging? In the 6 years I've owned a model s I've supercharged twice.

at what cost? is it scalable? and accessible to the main street. Last I heard humans do not have Lidar.

 

[Glamisduner]

What everyone doesn't know is @Glamisduner had a more difficult experience than a lot of people. Difficulty getting his car, and his car coming with a lot of defects. I think his car is still in the shop?

Perception of losing 5K value almost immediately after taking delivery of a car, and having that car lose the value while it is in the shop is a double whammy and compounds the frustration.

Tesla owes @Glamisduner something, but that is unrelated to PUPGate.

With that said:



At a cost! I have to give up FUSC which sucks. But I have a choice. Better than no choice. All 3P- get FUSC where some did not, so it equalized all those cars. You don't get 5000 back because you didn't spend 5000 more. You are "stuck" with FUSC as a "bonus" but better than nothing.



Their car value both new and used is depreciated.

750K house in 1 million house neighborhood is a great deal.
750K house in 850K neighborhood (150k price drop) makes that 750K house less valuable.

I already had FUSC, I used my friends referral code, so I gain nothing. Which, BTW tesla never gave him credit for. Might have to actually use some supercharging tonight on the loaner S, power has been out for over a day. Not sure if it will be free or not though.

 

[chronopc]

Keep going. I think the horse is still alive.

 

[Knightshade]

If you can't understand that the P3D- and P3D+ both depreciated by $5K because of the price drop of the add-on then it's not worth arguing with you over it

Nor should you, since you are factually wrong about it.

Higher trims of cars getting cheaper don't equal a dollar-for-dollar depreciation of lower trims of the same model.

That's not how depreciation works.

. I see the argument not to give $5K back to P3D- owners, but I don't see the argument of not offering a PUP upgrade to them in exchange for giving up free supercharging.

Well, there's the fact Tesla already has terrible shortages on spare parts, and the service centers are already backed up significantly because it never occurred to Tesla that a 5x increase in sales volume might require higher volume in service centers.... (same mistake they made with delivery logistics and sales centers during the 3 ramp).

So trying to retrofit a ton of cars with factory options after they left the factory under those conditions seems like a pretty awful idea.

 

[ohmman]

mod note: a few posts moved away to snippiness. A reminder that personal attacks and name calling are not permitted here and will be removed. Continued attacks will result in account restrictions.

Thanks for being kind to each other.

 

[Nocturnal]

If you paid for PUP, how did you not receive it? It's very obvious differences in the car.

I paid for the performance package. I did not receive all of that package at delivery and neither has anyone else.

mod note: a few posts moved away to snippiness. A reminder that personal attacks and name calling are not permitted here and will be removed. Continued attacks will result in account restrictions.

Thanks for being kind to each other.

This thread is littered with people claiming that anyone upset by the price change is entitled or unreasonable. Particularly people that are not impacted and don't own a 3. IMO, that isn't far off from trolling.

 

[robski]

Just want to throw this out there.

I called Tesla and they currently have some non-PUP P3's in inventory. They're still asking $64k.

 

[Knightshade]

Did I ever say I expected a refund? Stop putting words in my mouth.

Many other P3D- owners have said exactly that.

But what, exactly, DO you want then? And why do you think you "deserve" it given you got exactly the car you paid for at exactly the price you agreed to pay?

What is less fair is that Elon is giving refunds to P3D+ buyers and nothing to P3D-

But we know for a FACT you're not expecting a refund! Source: You. 30 seconds earlier in the same post.

So what're you mad about again??

You Keep insisting that P3D- is not inferior

No, I did no such thing...speaking of putting words in mouths

I did ask why, if you think that is true, you chose to buy an inferior car though.

Why did you buy an inferior car?

You are claiming these things add no value

Again you're just making stuff up nobody said.

I did point out one item on your list has been stated, by P3D- owners as less valuable and a reason they skipped the 5k upgrade in the first place to avoid being stuck with it- the 20" wheels.

Your claiming that if EAP and FSD becomes free, that the values of peoples cars that did not purchase them would not be affected

Strike 3 on claming things I never said!

If your car has not been delivered you do not have the option to just change the car to PUP, you have to take pay $2500 cancellation fee and get back in the end of the line.

So, first, that'd still put you $2500 ahead.... and second the change fee on an order is only $500.

Frequently Asked Questions - Ordering a Tesla

Once your order has been submitted to the factory, changes typically cannot be made because we immediately begin sourcing parts for your custom Tesla. If we are able to accommodate a change request after the three day waiting period, a $500 fee will be applied per change

But you can make it $0 easy enough. Remember you get 2 days to return the car for a full refund AFTER delivery (or you can reject it for free- and since they're only building P3D+ cars now you can get one as a replacement )

Again stop bringing AWD and RWD cars into this, they are not affected by the price drop.

Of course they are.

According to you making a "superior" version of the car cheaper TOTALLY lowers the value of the "inferior" versions of that car.

That includes, according to you, P3D- and AWD and RWD.

My P3D- is not 5-7k more than AWD. It was 11k more.

Yes?

Not sure why you mention that at all.

I was pointing out your claim that the reason they discontinued the P3D- was that if they'd instead just cut the price by 5k it would have killed AWD sales as everyone would buy the P3D- instead made no actual sense

Since that outcome would be awesome for Tesla and increase their profits- since the P3D- is just a software flash of the AWD and costs them nothing extra to make.

So therefore your reason can't be the actual reason.

Do you even have a model 3? If not, then why are you here?

Of course I do.

From what you've said though, you don't. So same question back at ya