PCN at supercharger Kings Lynn despite reasonable efforts

[Jason71]

Hotel have now agreed to instruct their contracted firm 'Civil Enforcement Ltd' to cancel the fine. I still don't know for sure what the system is - one poster writes here that there is no permit, but both Civil Enforcement Ltd and hotel staff were adamant that only permit holders are permitted to use this charger. And yet another member of hotel staff was equally adamant that no permit existed.

I feel like some of this is maybe a legal mechanism. As now I am looking for these tiny signs, I have spotted that my local Shell station actually has a very similar one saying that the Shell station is private land and for permit holders only. But I haven't ever been fined while filling up a petrol car there. Maybe there is some legal reason that you can't just make parking 'forbidden' but you can say it's only for permit holders?

I wrote to the hotel manager with a picture of the red signs at the Northampton site which to me are much clearer that an action is required and what that action is, suggesting that they may consider having similar signs.

Will definitely not visit this particular supercharger again. And will try and stick to the motorway services superchargers or the Northampton one where I know the system. If the other non-motorway locations are as abstruse to use as this Kings Lynn one, I am not taking a chance again.

The bottom line is you should have been able to register your details at reception on an iPad like many many hotels and that would have been your permit and all would have been OK. Problem was due to Covid or whatever reception was not open and you could not. That really is all there is to it. All the BS that followed is just that BS. The signs are (deliberately?) misleading and the system is clearly flawed but that is the system, the chargers are supposed to be open to all Tesla owners.

People have actually been fined at petrol stations while charging for being there too long. In some places they have APR cameras to stop people using the forecourt as a carpark with a max stay of 20-30 minutes. OK if getting Dino juice and or a snack. not so good if you are using a 50KW charger.

 

[HenryT]

Glad to hear you finally got a just outcome.

I think the signage (like that at your Shell station) is only ever there to permit enforcement*, not to help and inform. How hard would it be to have a sign that simply said 'If you wish to charge here you need to register at reception or by phoning xyz before you leave'

*Leading to "Well, there is a sign up so you have to pay" as you have found.

I don't think Tesla should entertain sites that do this, but I suspect they don't give a stuff either.

 

[nxsynjs]

Glad to hear you finally got a just outcome.

I think the signage (like that at your Shell station) is only ever there to permit enforcement*, not to help and inform. How hard would it be to have a sign that simply said 'If you wish to charge here you need to register at reception or by phoning xyz before you leave'

*Leading to "Well, there is a sign up so you have to pay" as you have found.

I don't think Tesla should entertain sites that do this, but I suspect they don't give a stuff either.

I wonder if popping into a hotel/petrol station and buying a mars bar or the obligatory while charging coffee would constitute being a guest of or customer of the place you were charging. If you could demonstrate you had purchased something from the hotel, not just mooching about while paying money to someone else I suspect their grounds for fining you become shakey

 

[btc1k]

As a new Tesla customer, I am shocked that a company, so far ahead in tech, has these issues with parking tickets at superchargers.

One to watch so thanks for the warnings but REALLY?

 

[s88ats]

As a new Tesla customer, I am shocked that a company, so far ahead in tech, has these issues with parking tickets at superchargers.

One to watch so thanks for the warnings but REALLY?

Same here - it made an interesting/rage-building read. Glad OP got it sorted, I can only imagine how stressful it must have been when all your trying to is "fill up" where the car takes you to!

Side note, I've never gone into reception to obtain a permit, and I wonder if my charges at the following sites required me to do so or if I too fell foul
Newport Pagnell,
Southbound; South Mimms,
Northampton, UK - Grange Park

I've clearly been living under a rock to know this was a thing!

 

[btc1k]

It would be easy enough for Tesla to program in a popup message on the in-car display when you plug in saying "car park registration required"..

Too easy perhaps.

 

[Billbrown1982]

Problem is this isn't restricted to electric chargers. There is a well known (in my industry at least) fuel station on the A2, that has 2 signs up, one says you are limited to 20 minutes and the other says 30 minutes.

They have ANPR on the entrance AND the exit and you WILL get a ticket if you are there more than 20 minutes.

I believe this was initially put in to stop Trucks having their breaks on site, over in the back corner, but the problem is that if you pull in and there are a few trucks infront of you queuing for the pumps, your gonna get a ticket.

This also applies to car drivers that unaware of such a short restriction, get fuel, maybe a bite to eat from the subway and then park up outside the shop to eat or stretch their legs etc.

As a car driver, I would never pay the fine as the signs are contradictory (have been for over a year now) but as a truck driver, most companies just automatically pay the fine and then pass that on to the driver so you get no chance of appealing it.

The whole system is flawed and BADLY needs some kind of supervision over these parking vultures, such as Eurocarparks and ParkingEye etc.

Many garages have similar signage, the BP at Stansted Airport springs to mind, but they are not enforced. Which is why the place is swamped with taxi drivers all parked up waiting for their flights to come in. Problem is, at any time BP can decide to start enforcing these restrictions and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

 

[browellm]

It would be easy enough for Tesla to program in a popup message on the in-car display when you plug in saying "car park registration required"..

Too easy perhaps.

Actually there is a warning in the description when you navigate to Kings Lynn SuC.

 

[HenryT]

It would be easy enough for Tesla to program in a popup message on the in-car display when you plug in saying "car park registration required"..

Too easy perhaps.

The problem with that is that Tesla would then have to engage with the parking enforcer/landowner to keep the information current and could also end up being drawn into disputes etc. Clearly they are not going to do that and beyond the odd warning like the one browellm mentions, there is little chance they will do much to control the parasites.

Like a lot of these sites, if there are any notices/warnings about, expect the worst.

 

[Billbrown1982]

The problem with that is that Tesla would then have to engage with the parking enforcer/landowner to keep the information current and could also end up being drawn into disputes etc. Clearly they are not going to do that and beyond the odd warning like the one browellm mentions, there is little chance they will do much to control the parasites.

Like a lot of these sites, if there are any notices/warnings about, expect the worst.

I'm guessing here, but I feel like removing the charger from the navigation would be the simplest solution. Keeping those chargers going must cost the hotel a pretty penny and I very much doubt they get enough Tesla owners staying overnight to make it worth their while. They must get some kind of cut from cars charging no?

 

[kriscii]

Maybe it needs a tweet to Elon to ask what cut of the parking fines are Tesla getting by guiding us to a honey pot, where we believe we can charge but are instead being tricked by poor signage and bad practices to incur fines beyond the charging cost

 

[kriscii]

Maybe it needs a tweet to Elon to ask what cut of the parking fines are Tesla getting by guiding us to a honey pot, where we believe we can charge but are instead being tricked by poor signage and bad practices to incur fines beyond the charging cost

Sent one myself, maybe we should all raise it with him.

 

[HenryT]

I'm guessing here, but I feel like removing the charger from the navigation would be the simplest solution. Keeping those chargers going must cost the hotel a pretty penny and I very much doubt they get enough Tesla owners staying overnight to make it worth their while. They must get some kind of cut from cars charging no?

I think that would only be a solution in the same way the chargers not being there would be a solution.

I don't know how the commercial arrangements work, but my assumption is that the hotel agrees to have the chargers installed to generate 'traffic' using an otherwise semi-redundant part of their car park and to be put on the map in Tesla terms, with Tesla covering all the costs. The imposition of the parking eye type parasites is another means of 'leveraging' that traffic, with PE (or similar) either paying the hotel a rent to be on site and/or a cut of the fines, otherwise why would the hotel have them there?

As mentioned earlier, I enter any of these sites with a heavy sigh and expect to scammed if I don't find out which hoops I have to jump through. It's deliberately made awkward to comply for obvious reasons I'm afraid.

It's all just one step up from 'average speed cameras' but I can at least see a safety imperative for that.

Bitter, moi?

 

[Jason71]

I'm guessing here, but I feel like removing the charger from the navigation would be the simplest solution. Keeping those chargers going must cost the hotel a pretty penny and I very much doubt they get enough Tesla owners staying overnight to make it worth their while. They must get some kind of cut from cars charging no?

I don't think superchargers cost the hotels that host them anything except a handful of parking spaces. What costs are you referring to?

 

[Billbrown1982]

I don't think superchargers cost the hotels that host them anything except a handful of parking spaces. What costs are you referring to?

Ah I guess I mistakenly assumed that the hotel would be somewhat responsible for upkeep, in the same way we've heard many stories of chargers being installed in other places and falling into states of disrepair because the land owners refuse to spend the money on them.

 

[nxsynjs]

It's all just one step up from 'average speed cameras' but I can at least see a safety imperative for that.

Average Speed camera's? you mean the parade lap before the Grand Prix : )

In this instance, I am sure it is just a case of poor communication and training between the hotel head office and this branch, hopefully we are nearing the end of enforced hotel closures so the case where the reception is close and the doors locked will be greatly reduced.

 

[cezdoc]

Glad the OP got the fine cancelled by the hotel. Anecdotally it seems contacting the hotel/landowner seems to be the best course of action in these (sadly ever-increasing) situations.

In my Nav I do see a warning about registering to avoid parking fines. I only got CCS enabled on Monday so I had a quick check to make sure V3 sites were coming up and spotted a few sites including King's Lynn (& Washington, for example) had similar warnings.

 

[Big Earl]

These Superchargers, while on private property, are available for public use. You are visiting the hotel to charge your car; as such, you must go into the reception area to register your vehicle. It seems that the signage was misinterpreted by the OP (after initially claiming that parking signage did not exist) and that they checked a side/rear entrance to the hotel rather than the main entrance, which recent posters have indicated is and has been open 24/7.

 

[s88ats]

Glad the OP got the fine cancelled by the hotel. Anecdotally it seems contacting the hotel/landowner seems to be the best course of action in these (sadly ever-increasing) situations.

In my Nav I do see a warning about registering to avoid parking fines. I only got CCS enabled on Monday so I had a quick check to make sure V3 sites were coming up and spotted a few sites including King's Lynn (& Washington, for example) had similar warnings.

View attachment 657986

Would this still come up if the car's nav recommends a stop along the route?

 

[Cnixon]

Dare I say it, you almost need to put number plate covers on just before the entrance and take them off as you leave. lol.

Superchargers are pointless if you can't use them without getting fined.
We could do with a list making of places that people have been fined and how many times, so we have a quick checklist before planning a journey.

Number plate covers what a fantastic idea. It is private land therefore no requirement for number plates.