Pedestrian Warning System (PWS) Retrofit

[Irata]

You can add your own speaker sure, I have as have others, but it'll only work immediately after a reboot - it requires Tesla to enable it, which they will only do as part of a retrofit.

Might be more difficult for you to block all data connectivity, including 3G/LTE. Imported cars will be much easier to test with, as no 3G/LTE.

I am wondering if a call-back to Tesla refreshes the config. So... If a car is disconnected from the mother ship, does that make a difference. Could be interesting to know.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

That it works at all is a bug - it doesn't check properly after a reboot, but if the car falls asleep when it wakes up it then does it properly.

If it was data related it wouldn't work after an update - and it does (that's generally the time it does work, since updates require reboots).

Lots of people have tried this all over the world when it first came out.. nobody has got it enabled without access to developer mode, which is quite hard (you basically have to test bench the MCU, unless you can get a valid certificate from Tesla, which they don't give out).

 

[Fdonneti]

How interesting. Does the car have internet connectivity? Either mobile data or Wi-Fi.

If so, I wonder if a "disconnected" car does the same.

Hello, she has no wifi only the lte. I am really wondering if the car does this by itself or it is programmed by tesla or disabled over the air by tesla. Very weird. If anyone experienced the same I am interested to know.

 

[Fdonneti]

If you look elsewhere on the forums, current (Q2) deliveries of Model 3s from China include the speaker(s) and the the PWS is enabled. Can't confirm myself yet as it's only just Sunday and my pick up isn't until Friday ...

Hi. I have seen Chinese made ones in dubai and boombox is working. Retrofit is not possible yet for older car even after installing the speaker.

 

[Peter 224]

I picked up my MiC M3 on 22 May and it has PWS, but only in reverse. It is a weird electronic sound, I'm not sure that many people would recognise it as a warning sound.

 

[Irata]

Hello, she has no wifi only the lte. I am really wondering if the car does this by itself or it is programmed by tesla or disabled over the air by tesla. Very weird. If anyone experienced the same I am interested to know.

Ah ok. Hopefully someone else can try, often it can be too easy to assume how things work. We know a reboot makes it work and all updates end in a reboot of course.

The wake must trigger some code that's not run during a reboot. So there is clearly a mismatch in their coding logic, where there is a glitch there is a way.

 

[pers1]

I picked up my MiC M3 on 22 May and it has PWS, but only in reverse. It is a weird electronic sound, I'm not sure that many people would recognise it as a warning sound.

The reason you don’t hear the PWS when driving forward is because Tesla uses the minimum EU in it’s directive for AVAS at 56dB
“
What are the sound levels for AVAS?
At speeds of 20 km/h, the minimum sound level for AVAS is 56 dB(A) [EU 2017/1576, Annex VIII, §III.3.a(i); UN 138.01, §6.2.8]. This is roughly equivalent to the noise of a fridge. The maximum sound level for AVAS is defined as the noise level of a conventional vehicle [EU 2017/1576, Annex VIII, §III.3.c] or alternatively of 75 dB(A) [UN 138.01, §6.2.7]. At speeds of less than 20km/h, the sound levels should be progressively lower [UN 138.01, §6.2.8]. Manufacturers appear to orient their AVAS towards these minimum values. This means that electric vehicles with AVAS solutions will not make streets louder than they are at the moment.”

“
Is EBU satisfied with the European rules?
The agreement of a binding requirement for AVAS on a European level is a major achievement for EBU. However, EBU sees three areas for improvement in the EU legislation. The European Commission has to evaluate the rules in 2021 [EU 540/2014, Art 11]. EBU will advocate for targeted and evaluation-driven improvements in these three areas.


European Blind Union
First, AVAS should be activated for speeds of up to 30km/h. In the United States, studies by the NTHSA have determined that AVAS has to be activated for speeds up to 18.6 mph (30km/h). Across Europe, 30km/h is a benchmark speed limit for many residential zones, in which the safety issues related to silent cars is particularly relevant.
Second, the minimum sound level of AVAS should be raised. Informal tests with members of the German Federation of the Blind and Partially Sighted in 2018 have shown that the minimum threshold is too low to ensure detection in most traffic situations, especially for persons of advanced age. While 56 dB(A) might be sufficiently audible in the unrealistic testing conditions prescribed by the UN, real-life traffic situations require a higher minimum sound level for AVAS.
Third, there should be a mandatory stationary sound. BPS persons need this input to be aware of vehicles that are about to start driving, especially in traffic situations or parking areas or residential zones. The rapid acceleration of electric vehicles compounds this issue further.”

link to the EBU article : EU

 

[Mrklaw]

Surely there are ICE cars already quieter than blind groups would like? Pottering around town in a modern ICE can be really quiet. The road noise from the tyres is the most noticeable thing at low speeds

 

[Tony Hoyle]

The regulations allow the pws to be no quieter than an equivalent ICE.. so yes if they're trying to make them louder they're trying to exceed the current ICE noise levels. But they're a pressure group, you can expect that.

They also miss that as more cars transition to electric there will be less background noise so much easier to hear an individual car.

 

[Mrklaw]

Model x drove past me the other day when I was out walking. Only a 30 zone but it was one of the loudest cars I’d heard. Does it have concrete tyres??

 

[Peter 224]

All of this well intended legislation is flawed.
BPS people have learnt to recognise the sound of an ICE: the EVs should, in my view, make a noise that is recognisable as a car, and at the same volume as a traditional ICE vehicle travelling at 30kph.
(Or a Harley Davidson with open exhausts)

 

[Adopado]

Model x drove past me the other day when I was out walking. Only a 30 zone but it was one of the loudest cars I’d heard. Does it have concrete tyres??

Unless an ICE has a prominent engine noise you always hear the tyre noise first above 30mph. Our house is on some bends on a road where we have to check for occasional vehicles coming before crossing the road. We hear the cars long before we can see them and it's surprisingly rare to be able to identify an electric vehicle before it actually passes. Heavier cars tend to make more tyre noise ... and large SUVs usually at the top of that range. Not really surprised that the X is a loud one.

 

[Mrklaw]

All of this well intended legislation is flawed.
BPS people have learnt to recognise the sound of an ICE: the EVs should, in my view, make a noise that is recognisable as a car, and at the same volume as a traditional ICE vehicle travelling at 30kph.
(Or a Harley Davidson with open exhausts)

But what is the sound of a car? There is a lot of difference between an old diesel van going past that sounds like a tractor, and modern quiet petrol engined small cc cars which can be *very* quiet and pretty much as quiet as an EV at 20mph

I can understand the needs of BPS people but the argument should be across the board and not just aimed at EVs, as cars have gotten a lot quieter overall

 

[Leafable]

I bought the speaker and 3 screws from 1 of London Tesla part store. And installed it myself (relatively easy), but it will only have the UFO sound when you reboot the screen and it wouldn't stay on. One of my mate got the tools and help me switch it on at the car backstage software and the boombox automatically appear on the toybox. And now all working fine as other factory fitted boombox. My Model 3 is manufactured after May 2020.

 

[Cardo]

I bought the speaker and 3 screws from 1 of London Tesla part store. And installed it myself (relatively easy), but it will only have the UFO sound when you reboot the screen and it wouldn't stay on. One of my mate got the tools and help me switch it on at the car backstage software and the boombox automatically appear on the toybox. And now all working fine as other factory fitted boombox. My Model 3 is manufactured after May 2020.

Interesting. So it needs someone with the ability to modify the vehicle’s config to enable this? I’d like to add this to my M3, which I understand should have the wiring loom, but it’s the config change that would be the blocker.

 

[Durzel]

Likewise, if I can switch on my heated steering wheel I'd be happy

 

[Peter 224]

my car has the "space ship" noise when reversing. No one takes any notice as they have no idea what the noise is. As has been said the noise should sound like a mechanical vehicle, I like the idea of a HD with open exhausts!!

 

[Tony Hoyle]

Interesting. So it needs someone with the ability to modify the vehicle’s config to enable this? I’d like to add this to my M3, which I understand should have the wiring loom, but it’s the config change that would be the blocker.

Yeah the config change is the issue, and probably always will be.

There are people who hack into the car to enable various features but at that point it's goodbye warranty and it's generally a practice found in countries where tesla service isn't available.

 

[MrBadger]

Yeah the config change is the issue, and probably always will be.

Official 'Boombox' retrofit was/is being offered in other countries, but last time I asked, nothing over here yet. I have certainly come across many situations where PWS would have been a benefit both convenience and safety wise.

 

[s88ats]

Interesting. So it needs someone with the ability to modify the vehicle’s config to enable this? I’d like to add this to my M3, which I understand should have the wiring loom, but it’s the config change that would be the blocker.

Likewise, if I can switch on my heated steering wheel I'd be happy

You guys piqued my interest as I love to tinker and came across this in my search.

Not sure if you guys were aware of it? From what I found Tesla offers a subscription service to access their tools. Prices are eye-watering for a temporary license and would probably make any retrofit that much more expensive, but to do a few in a go could make it feasible. There's also the hardware that you'll need too I suppose.