Plaid 21” rear tire woes - factory defect?

[Sam1]

Did you try a Discount Tire location? Emphasize that this is NOT a treadwear issue, but a tire DEFECT with warranty replacement request.

If no luck there, file a tire DEFECT warranty claim here:

Contact us form

Enjoy peace of mind throughout the life of your tires when you shop car tires, truck tires & SUV tires online with Michelin today! Find a location!

www.michelinman.com

(AGAIN: Emphasize that this is NOT a treadwear issue, but a "TIRE DEFECT with tread delamination at the inner sidewall, with air pressure loss, and with safety implications." Request the tires be replaced ASAP. Also, advise that you have NO alignment issues, as confirmed by our service center.)

Lastly, file a NHTSA complaint here--there needs to be a recall on these tires before someone gets hurt:

Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA

File a complaint with NHTSA if you experienced a vehicle, tire, car seat or equipment safety problem that could be a safety defect.

www.nhtsa.gov

Please keep us posted.

p.s. Keep the old tires for the warranty claim as Michelin may want them for inspection.

We're still waiting on you to post a single instance, just 1, not multiples, of where the person has done camber arms and had a proper alignment done that is experiencing premature tire wear.

Haven't been able to locate it yet? Been a couple of months since I asked.

 

[n2mb_racing]

We're still waiting on you to post a single instance, just 1, not multiples, of where the person has done camber arms and had a proper alignment done that is experiencing premature tire wear.

Haven't been able to locate it yet? Been a couple of months since I asked.

I agree. I'm sure camber arms and alignment will fix it. Michelin is partly to blame since other previous tires didn't delaminate under the same abuse, but fixing the alignment should solve it.

 

[Sam1]

I agree. I'm sure camber arms and alignment will fix it. Michelin is partly to blame since other previous tires didn't delaminate under the same abuse, but fixing the alignment should solve it.

I posted a photo from greentheonly's model X doing the same thing on a different brand of tire. It's in no way related to Michelin

 

[MP3Mike]

I posted a photo from greentheonly's model X doing the same thing on a different brand of tire. It's in no way related to Michelin

But was it the same thing? Yes, the tire had excessive wear on the inside edge, but there were no reports of delamination or air leakage. (So, it seems like that tire was not defective, and was just worn out prematurely.)

 

[n2mb_racing]

But was it the same thing? Yes, the tire had excessive wear on the inside edge, but there were no reports of delamination or air leakage. (So, it seems like that tire was not defective, and was just worn out prematurely.)

I agree. My previous model S (2016 P90DL) had the same issue, the tires wore out prematurely on the inside edge because of the excessive negative camber. But, they didn't delaminate or leak air. So, weak design coupled with bad alignment. Anyway, seems likely that if we fix the bad alignment, the problem will be solved.

 

[bkcyk]

Technically, -2.75 rear camber is "in spec" per Tesla on the Model S which is insane. On medium? Ludicrous. Why? Because if you default to low suspension height, you add negative camber (wheel travels in an arc) which is approaching F1 front tire values = gonzo.

Is it a tire defect? Nah. Is it lazy or poor suspension design by Tesla? Umm, I'd love an explanation by Tesla engineers how they came to this design decision (hint: cost containment). The reason why you're seeing some getting more rear tire life than others is because on such a big car, a little bit of component variance here and there will contribute to different suspension alignment results including rear camber.

For now, and likely forevermore, the onus is on the owner to deal with the excessive tire wear or not. For me, I love the OEM T2 PS4S and will only run 21s so I went with adjustable camber arms to get my rear spec to a more reasonable -1.1 in low mode.

We'll see how long my original T2 rear tires last. I'd love to get the PS4S par for course 20-25K miles outta them.

P.S. IMHO, every MSP owner should get their alignment checked so you know where you stand else you're flying blind kinda like FSD sometimes

 

[n2mb_racing]

Technically, -2.75 rear camber is "in spec" per Tesla on the Model S which is insane. On medium? Ludicrous. Why? Because if you default to low suspension height, you add negative camber (wheel travels in an arc) which is approaching F1 front tire values = gonzo.

Is it a tire defect? Nah. Is it lazy or poor suspension design by Tesla? Umm, I'd love an explanation by Tesla engineers how they came to this design decision (hint: cost containment). The reason why you're seeing some getting more rear tire life than others is because on such a big car, a little bit of component variance here and there will contribute to different suspension alignment results including rear camber.

For now, and likely forevermore, the onus is on the owner to deal with the excessive tire wear or not. For me, I love the OEM T2 PS4S and will only run 21s so I went with adjustable camber arms to get my rear spec to a more reasonable -1.1 in low mode.

We'll see how long my original T2 rear tires last. I'd love to get the PS4S par for course 20-25K miles outta them.

P.S. IMHO, every MSP owner should get their alignment checked so you know where you stand else you're flying blind kinda like FSD sometimes

I'm at -1 degrees in medium and my tires still failed. I did spend all my time in low, so it's surprisingly sensitive.

 

[bkcyk]

I'm at -1 degrees in medium and my tires still failed. I did spend all my time in low, so it's surprisingly sensitive.

View attachment 979335

It’d be more interesting to see your values in low mode.

 

[n2mb_racing]

It’d be more interesting to see your values in low mode.

Yeah. That's all I got from Tesla.

 

[bkcyk]

Yeah. That's all I got from Tesla.

They’re so trustworthy

 

[rstx]

I'm at -1 degrees in medium and my tires still failed. I did spend all my time in low, so it's surprisingly sensitive.

View attachment 979335

If your car is set to medium during the alignment this is what your alignment specs should be

 

[rstx]

When it drops to low after using these specs ^ it will add camber but will be reasonable and not cause the inner tire wear.

See the spec where rear camber up to -2.75 ON MEDIUM is "within spec". If they have it at -2.75 at medium then the suspension goes to low and fuggedaboutdemtires

 

[KOL2000]

Got N2itive rear links installed today at Euro Auto Spot in San Diego. Let’s see how it goes… 24k miles let’s see if the rear tires last till 30k…

 

[Sam1]

But was it the same thing? Yes, the tire had excessive wear on the inside edge, but there were no reports of delamination or air leakage. (So, it seems like that tire was not defective, and was just worn out prematurely.)

Yes he had leaks, that's how he found it.

And the Michelins delaminate because they're a 30 series tire; if these were super low profile, they'd do it similarly.

 

[Awiner]

I'm at -1 degrees in medium and my tires still failed. I did spend all my time in low, so it's surprisingly sensitive.

View attachment 979335

If you are -1 rear camber in medium you would more than likely be approaching -2.5+ in low and even more excessive tow out (approaching negative toe) in the rear in low.

 

[Awiner]

Got N2itive rear links installed today at Euro Auto Spot in San Diego. Let’s see how it goes… 24k miles let’s see if the rear tires last till 30k…

was this measured in low ? Thats a lot of camber in low if you have adjustable arms.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

I posted a photo from greentheonly's model X doing the same thing on a different brand of tire. It's in no way related to Michelin

Yes, of course.

Which clearly explains why we have yet to see even ONE Pirelli OEM tire delamination on the many thousands of MS Plaids so equipped, yet hundreds (perhaps thousands NOT being captured here on TMC as well?) of inner sidewall/tread delaminations on the Michelin OEM tires, despite the cars having EXACTLY the same alignment specifications . . . .

Got it.

 

[emailforbrett]

Yes, of course.

Which clearly explains why we have yet to see even ONE Pirelli OEM tire delamination on the many thousands of MS Plaids so equipped, yet hundreds (perhaps thousands NOT being captured here on TMC as well?) of inner sidewall/tread delaminations on the Michelin OEM tires, despite the cars having EXACTLY the same alignment specifications . . . .

Got it.

There is no such thing as an OEM Pirelli 21” tire on the Plaid. I am merely speculating here, but perhaps that’s what you haven’t seen one?

 

[n2mb_racing]

There is no such thing as an OEM Pirelli 21” tire on the Plaid. I am merely speculating here, but perhaps that’s what you haven’t seen one?

I had Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires on my P90DL. But, not as wide: Michelin Pilot Super Sport 265/35ZR21 Rear, even though the same 21". I got about 20k miles on them. The rears were more worn on the inside, but no delamination. But, now we have 295/30/R21 tires, so I could see that being a critical difference as well. I wonder if the track pack wheels would be as sensitive with 305/30R20 tires.

 

[Sam1]

Yes, of course.

Which clearly explains why we have yet to see even ONE Pirelli OEM tire delamination on the many thousands of MS Plaids so equipped, yet hundreds (perhaps thousands NOT being captured here on TMC as well?) of inner sidewall/tread delaminations on the Michelin OEM tires, despite the cars having EXACTLY the same alignment specifications . . . .

Got it.

Don't deflect, I am asking a very specific question. It kinda makes you look silly when you direct very specific blame for an issue, then you can't provide a single case where the independent variable (camber arms - or shims/alignment) was implemented and it resulted in the same outcome you're asserting.

Just a single instance is all we want to see. That's it, not complicated. The cars have been out for multiple years now and you can't seem to find anything.