Plaid 21” rear tire woes - factory defect?

[Sam1]

As you would expect. I spoke to s service advisor whom I have known since 2014. We have become good friends over the years. I asked if she had heard of refresh rear tire worn shoulders are a "thing" and to my surprise the answer was NO.
Not since the early days on the non-refresh 21's. She said they had since resolved that with camber/toe adjustments.
Could it be that the folks on this thread are the small community of refresh owners are experiencing this??

That's about as legit as the service tech 2 days ago that told me the loud popping noise coming from my driver's side wheel well was "normal suspension noises". He had no answer when I asked him why the other three wheels don't pop like that if it's normal. So they took it in and fixed the issue.

Work titles don't equate to knowledge in the field they work in, so your SA's opinion has zero weight in my world. My guess is she has no clue they don't have adjustable camber arms in the rear.

 

[Muzzman1]

That's about as legit as the service tech 2 days ago that told me the loud popping noise coming from my driver's side wheel well was "normal suspension noises". He had no answer when I asked him why the other three wheels don't pop like that if it's normal. So they took it in and fixed the issue.

Work titles don't equate to knowledge in the field they work in, so your SA's opinion has zero weight in my world.

She's not a mechanical expert, nor does she claim to be one. I was just asking how much traffic she was seeing with this issue. She has seen none. That's all. She was not inserting any sort of opinion on wether the problem existed or not. She had not heard of it until I mentioned it to her.

 

[Awiner]

As you would expect. I spoke to s service advisor whom I have known since 2014. We have become good friends over the years. I asked if she had heard of refresh rear tire worn shoulders are a "thing" and to my surprise the answer was NO.
Not since the early days on the non-refresh 21's. She said they had since resolved that with camber/toe adjustments.
Could it be that the folks on this thread are the small community of refresh owners are experiencing this??

We know that in 2021 with the refresh Tesla added adjustable toe arms at the rear.

My guess is exactly because of the inner sidewall issues that have been reported prior. You need to be able to adjust toe out (positive toe) to address this in the event there is a toe in (negative) condition due to suspension geometry issues.

Camber wasn’t as much of an issue until Tesla started to force the air suspension into LOW during highway driving or when lowering links/brackets became available causing excessive negative camber situations.

As suspension geometry gets lower camber becomes more negative.

Again, I am not declaring that the 21” Michelin tires can’t be made more robust in that area, but the suspension geometry is also adding to these issues.

 

[Awiner]

That's about as legit as the service tech 2 days ago that told me the loud popping noise coming from my driver's side wheel well was "normal suspension noises". He had no answer when I asked him why the other three wheels don't pop like that if it's normal. So they took it in and fixed the issue.

Google Ackerman effect.

 

[Sam1]

Google Ackerman effect.

My family owns a circle track, and has for a few decades so I'm familiar.

How are you suggesting this is related to the body bolts that they found were backing out, allowing the panel to flex and make a popping noise?

 

[Awiner]

My family owns a circle track, and has for a few decades so I'm familiar.

How are you suggesting this is related to the body bolts that they found were backing out, allowing the panel to flex and make a popping noise?

Not suggesting that wasn’t the cause. But I bet most people hearing these noises especially when cold is mostly due to the slip angle effect of Ackerman.

Did they tell you it was within spec

 

[Sam1]

Not suggesting that wasn’t the cause. But I bet most people hearing these noises especially when cold is mostly due to the slip angle effect of Ackerman.

Did they tell you it was within spec

The "within spec" happened during the drive constantly, but when I went down my troubleshooting steps, he realized I actually knew what I was talking about and dropped the "it's normal" act.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

As you would expect. I spoke to s service advisor whom I have known since 2014. We have become good friends over the years. I asked if she had heard of refresh rear tire worn shoulders are a "thing" and to my surprise the answer was NO.
Not since the early days on the non-refresh 21's. She said they had since resolved that with camber/toe adjustments.
Could it be that the folks on this thread are the small community of refresh owners are experiencing this??

Amazing.

How does she reconcile that belief with constant, nationwide, backorder status of the Plaid rear tires, or is she unaware of that?

 

[TSLA Pilot]

The "within spec" happened during the drive constantly, but when I went down my troubleshooting steps, he realized I actually knew what I was talking about and dropped the "it's normal" act.

And, please do tell: what was the problem and the solution?

Thanks!

 

[MFrunkerOG]

There may be some truth in what one of you said earlier. I know 2 other 21” owners personally and I checked both their cars for delaminating, and found none

Both are above 10k miles

 

[Muzzman1]

Amazing.

How does she reconcile that belief with constant, nationwide, backorder status of the Plaid rear tires, or is she unaware of that?

I would imagine she's unaware. Certainly not oblivious, she's actually amazing.
Im in LA so not exactly rare to see Tesla's out here these days. Pretty much 3/10 cars are a Tesla.

 

[n2mb_racing]

I must have missed all the threads of the pre-Palladium Model S with dozens of pictures of rear tires coming apart? I don't recall seeing any, and we've been driving MS's since 2013.

Sorry, but I'll have to disagree completely.

Inner tread tire wear is one thing, and tread/sidewall separation is something else entirely--the 21" Michelin rear tires are physically coming apart. This is especially interesting as the tread in many photographs shows minimal wear on the inside edge . . . .

But perhaps having tires come apart is okay for some here? It's not for me, hence my efforts to escalate this to a NHTSA recall and get the bad tires off the road before someone gets hurt.

Probably it's a little bit of both. The poor alignment on the Model S has always abused tires and worn the insides prematurely. It seems that unfortunately the new Michelins are particularly vulnerable to this kind of abuse, and are therefore coming apart. I imagine the tire probably doesn't have any issues if it is worn down evenly.

I also wonder if the delamination is caused by under inflation from the slow leak, which seems to also be caused by the shoulder wear. I would imagine that even driving a short distance under inflated could overheat the tire and cause it to fail.

 

[Jett Black]

I would highly suggest anyone having these issues to contact Michelin support. They have been super-helpful. The issue has been escalated and I am in contact with them to help figure it out.

Michelin has informed me that they are now following this thread. It is very important that you upload images of your tires if you have had this issue and contact their support team.

I have an appointment this week to get the tire inspected. My hope is that they will push this issue to Tesla and they can issue a service bulletin to update the alignment specs. This may all be wishful thinking, but I believe this needs to happen. The Model S is a revolutionary vehicle, and deserves attention brought to this issue.

Additionally, I have a Tesla service center appointment next week. One of the issues I am having them inspect is the rear toe alignment. I will report back with their findings.

Here is the link to contact Michelin: Contact us form

 

[emailforbrett]

I filed a NHTSA report. 15,000 miles and having tread separation with no real solution to prevent it from reoccurring is asinine.

 

[daddymalu]

I also filed a NHTSA report. My tires were falling apart at 8k miles and I needed the back two replaced. When I called Michelin they lady and the phone had no idea they made tires for Tesla and insisted Tesla made a plaid plus. They also stated Tesla is not an authorized Michelin dealer and if I took the car to them they would not be able to inspect or honor the warranty even though they were the only ones with the Tires in stock.

 

[Sam1]

I filed a NHTSA report. 15,000 miles and having tread separation with no real solution to prevent it from reoccurring is asinine.

The solution is a proper alignment in the low setting. easy peasy.

 

[emailforbrett]

The solution is a proper alignment in the low setting. easy peasy.

I wish it were that easy. This is happening to folks after only a few thousand miles post-delivery of the brand new car. My tires were worn evenly, even according to the Tesla tech that inspected it. That’s why Michelin covered the replacement. They had to verify with him first.

Nonetheless, I took it to two alignment shops (Goodyear and Firestone in Lake Nona, FL) and neither would touch it. They can’t adjust the camber, only the toe. Something to do with Tesla proprietary blah blah blah. So I have an appointment with Tesla for a $300 alignment next week. Just to make sure it’s “within spec”.

 

[wgoetzmann]

View attachment 903166

Get this - and check your camber at all different height setting inside your garage.

Amazon sells the magnetic level separately and also the wheel mount jig

Zackman Scientific Wheel... Amazon.com

kipa Adjustable Magnetic Gauge... Amazon.com

I did measure my camber at different heights.
Before adjusting Very High -0.6, High -1.2, Medium -1.4, Low -1.8.
Now after adjusting Very High +0.8, High +0.1, Medium -0.4, Low -0.6

 

[Sam1]

I wish it were that easy. This is happening to folks after only a few thousand miles post-delivery of the brand new car. My tires were worn evenly, even according to the Tesla tech that inspected it. That’s why Michelin covered the replacement. They had to verify with him first.

Nonetheless, I took it to two alignment shops (Goodyear and Firestone in Lake Nona, FL) and neither would touch it. They can’t adjust the camber, only the toe. Something to do with Tesla proprietary blah blah blah. So I have an appointment with Tesla for a $300 alignment next week. Just to make sure it’s “within spec”.

They're coming aligned in the medium setting, and the majority of your driving will be in the low setting. Then, some of the alignments are coming from the factory out of whack. It's also not proprietary, Tesla just has no system to adjust the camber at all on either the front or rear.

No one can seem to find anyone with old or new MS's that installed camber arms and had an alignment, burning through the tires like they do from the factory. Why do you think that would be?

I also posted videos of both the OEM suspension showing a ton of toe out flex during a race to the point it was deforming the tire a bit, and then with the unplugged toe/camber arms showing a full throttle launch deep into triple digits and not a single hair of movement beyond the car squatting.

 

[Awiner]

** Solution **

#1 install aftermarket adjustable rear camber arms for 2021+ Model S and X.

If 2020 or earlier install aftermarket adjustable rear camber arms and adjustable rear toe arms.

#2 have a proper 4 wheel alignment done at the ride height you predominantly are driving in.

#3 enjoy good tire wear


With that said, in a perfect world Tesla should have adjustable camber and toe. Both front and rear in all models. But they don’t on the rear so many of us are coming out of pocket on these parts to save on tires in the future regardless of lowering or running stock. ROI and safety seems like a good idea.

Tesla should align in LOW since they force ride height to low on highways.

Why they don’t do this probably is because of a myriad of reasons which we could debate adnausem.