Politics - Quarantine Thread

[Skotty]

More and more, events in modern America are giving credibility to our enemies abroad who label America as an evil in the world. Just in the last couple of days, another mass shooting happens and another tape emerges showing a certain someone supported by many Americans who cares more about marble floors than an injured, possibly dying man bleeding upon them. People I personally know have cabinets full of assault weapons of all kinds as if we are already living in a post apocalyptic armageddon. Patriots are labeled traitors by patriots flying treasonous flags. This is a day to day norm now. It's all circling the drain, and people largely hate each other, including me. I've been cutting ties with former friends who, quite frankly, I can't stomach to be around anymore. We have serious problems, and armageddon feels closer every day.

 

[Shock-On-T]

While this event was a serious tragedy by a mad man whom I believe we will find was using weapons that are highly illegal in the US, people do not always understand the magnitude of numbers. What appears to be a massive problem is actually not on the radar as it affects the citizens of the US in 2017.

In 2016, ~50,000 people died from illegal drugs directly, with another 14,400 from legally-available drugs. Or 175 every day last year.
This year will be far, far higher. The state governments are acting in a predictable fashion by legalizing and decriminalizing drugs.

Also for 2016, 40,000 deaths were auto deaths. Unknown how many were drug related. Actions taken by the government to address the root cause? No additional funding or requirements for advanced driver training, more integration of social networking into cars. Car safety systems continue to improve, but fatalities are increasing.

In the same year, 10,000 murders were committed by firearms, and 7,250 by other weapons. It is unknown how many of these deaths were drug related.

The fastest growing death rate by % is drug overdose by a wide margin, then auto deaths, then firearms.

I grew up in rural Australia and we had a collection of rifles and shotguns. We would blow the brains out of the occasional feral cat prowling about the chicken coop, but never hunted much (too soft-hearted). Plenty of target shooting though, and I still remember the trouble I got into at the tender age of 10 for “felling” my mothers bonsai tree with my .22.

It would be great if there was some way to greatly reduce gun killings while still maintaining the freedom and enjoyment of gun ownership.

I have no big idea as to how to achieve this. Australia did an outright ban about 20 years ago, but I doubt such a ban would happen in the US in the foreseeable future so it’s better to think of more subtle solutions.

I remember an old Chris Rock routine about not needing gun control but needing bullet control. The joke was to make bullets cost $5000.
“That guy must have done somethin’, he’s got $50,000 worth of bullets in his ass”.

Rather than the perpetual argument about the 2nd amendment, my humble opinion is that more lives would be saved by looking at the problem like a behavioural economist. Lots of little nudges can save a lot of lives, without affecting personal liberty.

 

[nwdiver]

But what is really happening?

U.S. Traffic Deaths Rise for a Second Straight Year

LOL... I'm sure that's 100% related to the fact that the government can't regulate anything in a positive way and 0% related to the fact that more people are driving more miles... weird coincidence that this record oddly coincides with the last miles driven record in 2008....

 

[kort677]

First of all condoleances from the other side of the Atlantic to all with family or friends involved in the horrible incident. As a legal practitioner, I have always found the constitutional argument rather strange: the constitution is there to protect citizens

this initial premise that the balance of your rant is based is impossibly flawed. come back you have a better understanding of what our constitution is.

 

[kort677]

LOL... I'm sure that's 100% related to the fact that the government can't regulate anything in a positive way and 0% related to the fact that more people are driving more miles... weird coincidence that this record oddly coincides with the last miles driven record in 2008....

as per usual your data is faulty

 

[qwk]

The biggest problem in America is ignorance, not violence. Most Americans today dont know how good they really have it. It would be a real eye opener for some of you to go abroad, and see for yourselves just how well communism and dictatorhip really works.

BTW, real assault weapons are indeed illegal to own in America, and what the bonehead media calls an assault weapon is an AR-15. If someones intent is to kill as many people as they can in a short amount of time, the AR-15 is probably the last rifle you want. Like I said, ignorance is far too widespread in the USA.

 

[kort677]

It would be great if there was some way to greatly reduce gun killings while still maintaining the freedom and enjoyment of gun ownership.

you and many others, when you can come with a workable solution you'd become famous, btw how's that gun ban working out for you down there?

 

[McRat]

... I have always found the constitutional argument rather strange: the constitution is there to protect citizens ...

The Constitution is to protect the citizens from the government.

It says little about safety, except a Common Defense.

There were very few 'free' countries in late 1700's. The Royals made laws which they could override, and themselves did not have to obey.
We wanted something different.

The Second Amendment is in the Bill of Rights. They could not get the States to pass the Constitution without more protection against the government. So they specifically picked out rights that would stop tyranny. Yeah, if a King takes power in the USA, it is our duty to depose them, and for that you need guns.

Today, we have laws that limit/eliminate free speech, religion, firearm ownership, due process, search and seizure, etc. The Federal Government can just take your possessions and hold them without proof of a crime. They can lock you up without a trial. They can take your guns (in California at least) without you having broken any laws.

Our forefathers saw this coming. They were not seers. It's just what happens when you give humans too much control over their neighbors. They turn into jerks.

 

[qwk]

'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed'

Do you think it should be legal to own a surface-to-air missiles? How am I supposed to protect my family from the government without adequate anti-air defense? Technology has changed... so should our laws.

This has got to be one of the stupidest arguments I have ever read on a forum of any kind.

 

[kort677]

'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed'

Do you think it should be legal to own a surface-to-air missiles? How am I supposed to protect my family from the government without adequate anti-air defense? Technology has changed... so should our laws.

can you cite the law that prohibits private ownership of SAMS?

 

[McRat]

If the owners of the Twin Towers would have invested in a SAM battery, today's history would be a lot different.

 

[nwdiver]

as per usual your data is faulty

As per usual your data is nonexistent...

If the owners of the Twin Towers would have invested in a SAM battery, today's history would be a lot different.

If anyone with the cash was able to purchase a SAM there would be A LOT of things that would be different....

No matter how much I remind myself to never be surprised by the power of cognitive dissonance... I'm still amazed by the power of cognitive dissonance....

 

[McRat]

As per usual your data is nonexistent...



If anyone with the cash was able to purchase a SAM there would be A LOT of things that would be different....

Dunno. Saddam spent billions on SAM sites, and that didn't work out so well for him...

 

[Carl]

Yes, a SAM on each of our roofs, great idea! Here in Europe I think we also need surface-to-surface missiles, just in case the Russians attack over land. Can also be useful if next door neighbours' pool barbecue becomes noisy after 11:00pm. Have fun with discussing with @kort677 on this for the rest of this thread.

I'm out because of this thread's degeneration, but just for the record: I love the U.S. constitution (the first great constitution ever written, which I have read from a to z at least twice - nice bedtime reading, for a lawyer who loves the rule of law - and the U.S. constitution obviously paved the way for all the other written constitutions - and revolutions, including the Belgian revolution, which included, in 1831, the first very democratic constitution in continental Europe).

 

[nwdiver]

This has got to be one of the stupidest arguments I have ever read on a forum of any kind.

In which regard exactly? The argument that we need the 2nd amendment to protect ourselves from the government or the idea that the ability to protect ourselves from the most powerful modern military in the world might create more of a threat to public safety than the perceived freedom it provides....

If we can agree that it's a terrible idea for John Q public to have the ability to shoot down aircraft why can't we agree that it's probably a bad idea for weapons that can be easily modified to fire >500 rounds per minute to be legal?

 

[McRat]

As per usual your data is nonexistent...



If anyone with the cash was able to purchase a SAM there would be A LOT of things that would be different....

No matter how much I remind myself to never be surprised by the power of cognitive dissonance... I'm still amazed by the power of cognitive dissonance....

I'm always "amazed" that with so many paid 'comedians' in the liberal movement, so very few realize that humor exists.

I assumed I was answering a joke with a joke.

Why not just say you need an Ohio class sub for fishing...

I'll save Google the bandwidth, that's a ballistic missile submarine.

 

[roblab]

In 2016, ~50,000 people died from illegal drugs directly, with another 14,400 from legally-available drugs. Or 175 every day last year.
The fastest growing death rate by % is drug overdose by a wide margin, then auto deaths, then firearms.

And as a population, we continue to mentally remove alcohol from the list of drugs. It is a narcotic, folks, legal or not.

 

[McRat]

... why can't we agree that it's probably a bad idea for weapons that can be easily modified to fire >500 rounds per minute to be legal?

We are way ahead of you.

Semi-automatic rifles that fire from the open bolt are banned from production for over 30 years unless licensed as fully automatic, which is difficult to impossible. These were easy to convert.
It's not as easy as you think to make a closed bolt design go full auto.
It can be done, but it's a felony, and requires some significant machinist and gunsmithing skills. Not impossible, just not for rookies either.

 

[qwk]

In which regard exactly? The argument that we need the 2nd amendment to protect ourselves from the government or the idea that the ability to protect ourselves from the most powerful modern military in the world might create more of a threat to public safety than the perceived freedom it provides....

If we can agree that it's a terrible idea for John Q public to have the ability to shoot down aircraft why can't we agree that it's probably a bad idea for weapons that can be easily modified to fire >500 rounds per minute to be legal?

ANY military has little power once its citizens start revolting. History has proved it over and over. No missles needed.
Im curious as to which rifle is easily modified to fire 500 round per minute? If it was that easy, thats what would be used in these school shootings. Instead we have idiots that use old chinese or Russian ak type or ar-15 rifles.

 

[kort677]

Y but just for the record: I love the U.S. constitution

that is so wonderful that you love our nation's governing doctrine, too bad you don't understand the parameters and purpose of our constitution.