Politics - Quarantine Thread

[Struja]

I am curious about something. First...I had a conceal and carry permit in New York State 17 years ago (although I didn’t own a gun - strange... I know)

For the guys claiming this is a mental health issue...I have some genuine questions that you might know the answers....

1. Is there is higher rate of mental health issues in the USA over other western nations. If so, what would be the explanation?

2. Do you support universal healthcare for all mental healthcare issues, to ensure public safety?

3. What accounts for the greater propensity for gun violence in the USA vs. Other western nations?

4. Do you see any correlation between access to guns and gun violence or is there no relationship?

5. If this is a mental healthcare issue, what role does access to automatic and semi automatic weapons have in mass shootings?

 

[MikeQ]

The same excuse for every mass shooting. Nothing to see here folks, move on. It is just a deranged individual here and a deranged individual there. Just a minor problem of a few mental mad caps getting hold of guns. We can fix it by arming every one with more powerful guns.

You certainly can't fix it by getting rid of guns or passing laws. 85 dead and 458 wounded in Nice, France. Weapon of choice? Truck.

People that have no regard for the law and are willing to kill people will find a way. Some of those ways will likely be more deadly than a gun.

 

[Ardie]

I'm not exactly sure why there is a gun argument in a Tesla forum.
Is there a weaponry option that I don't know of? Tesla Guardian?
OKAY, I would just *have* to look over the "007" options a bit more closely.

Well, the Aston Martin DB5 for James Bond's "Goldfinger" movie *did* have actual 35 cal. machine guns behind the turn signal lamps...

-- Ardie
Gives a new meaning to "all the options."

 

[Lloyd]

Did anyone notice that this occurred in a GUN FREE ZONE !!!!!

Obviously laws and regulations did not work.

 

[kort677]

He said easily. The newer ones are not that easy to convert, not easy or cheap anyway, and the older ones that are, aren't anywhere as common or cheap.

now go reread what I posted, easy is subjective, what is easy for me may not be an easy task for you

 

[Xenoilphobe]

First of all condoleances from the other side of the Atlantic to all with family or friends involved in the horrible incident. As a legal practitioner, I have always found the constitutional argument rather strange: the constitution is there to protect citizens (just as other laws aimed at the safety and liberty of citizens). The U.S. has 3.6 homicides by firearms per 100,000 persons per year (for reference, Germany has a exemplary 0.07, and Belgium has 0.33, which is not better than average for a first world country but still more than ten times better than the U.S. figure). There are just about as many people with mental health problems in Europe as in the U.S., I would suppose. So that mental health issue doesn't explain ten times more homicides by firearms. Guns don't kill, for sure, but they sure do help crazy people kill more easily .

And, BTW, the 2nd amendment of 1791 was written at a time when you would have to take two minutes or so to load your firearm for your second shot, right? Today, you cannot in the U.S. have three of four atomic bombs or a few tons of chemical weapons in your basement, right? So the question is whether you should be able to have ten fully loaded very efficient semi-automatic guns in your hotel room... It's just a question of where to put the limit, not (imho) about any 'absolute' right to 'arms'. 'Arms' in 1791 were those (totally imprecise) shotguns which took minutes to load, or swords, or lances, and not things with which you could so easily commit acts of terrorism as we saw today.

This is horrible and second only to the events that happened in Norway - where 68 people were gunned down.
Anders Behring Breivik - Wikipedia

I bet our mental health issues are far worse, hell the early colonies were the dumping ground for many of the insane and political rabble-rousers of Europe, even Cuba figured it out and dumped it's problem children on our shores, by cleaning out their mental hospitals and prisons and dumping them here too. Mariel boatlift - Wikipedia , then add in drugs, MS17, little to no immigration control and you get people who don't feel safe and feel the need to own firearms.

Also it is in our constitution, and "Arms" did mean military arms for the militia. As a former "militia" Army (retired) member - many of us have them in our homes for security.

I still think Europe may have better mental health care than we do.

Our other issue here in the colonies is that we like to treat mental illness by drugging or imprisoning - neither really work, but as someone said earlier in the thread said, if corporations can make money off it we do it here. Pharm companies here get to make drugs that are addictive and have legal addicts, once insurance stops paying they call the local drug dealer to get what they need. Also we have outsourced our prisons to corporations (ever flow into Tucson Arizona), looks like something out of a science fiction movie from the future.
Google Maps


I don't know the answer, but this guy is a sick puppy - i'm just glad his gene pool is eliminated. Maybe the families should sue the casinos that put this guy in a mental state where he felt he was hopeless, as compulsive gambler (if this true - I only speculate based on the garbage the media is spewing).

 

[kort677]

Glad we agree that there's no need for the public to own assault rifles.



Most semi-automatic rifles are incredibly easy to make fully automatic.

just another one of this guys "facts" and he wonders why nobody will engage in a dialog with him

 

[kort677]

As I'm sure you are aware, there is no such thing. It is a term that was made up.

I'm aware, I want to see the "facts he conjures up

 

[MikeQ]

I am curious about something. First...I had a conceal and carry permit in New York State 17 years ago (although I didn’t own a gun - strange... I know)

For the guys claiming this is a mental health issue...I have some genuine questions that you might know the answers....

1. Is there is higher rate of mental health issues in the USA over other western nations. If so, what would be the explanation?

2. Do you support universal healthcare for all mental healthcare issues, to ensure public safety?

3. What accounts for the greater propensity for gun violence in the USA vs. Other western nations?

4. Do you see any correlation between access to guns and gun violence or is there no relationship?

5. If this is a mental healthcare issue, what role does access to automatic and semi automatic weapons have in mass shootings?

I don't know if we have a higher rate of mental illness in the U.S. but I do know that something like 60% of all gun deaths are suicide.

With the way doctors are prescribing mind altering medications for depression, I wouldn't be surprised if the issue is the way we treat the mentally ill rather than the U.S. having higher numbers of mentally ill.

 

[qwk]

now go reread what I posted, easy is subjective, what is easy for me may not be an easy task for you

Yes, I read what you posted, and easy is subjective. Turning a newer ar into full auto mode, could be done, but 99.9% of ar owners wont be able to do it. Kind of like rooting a Tesla. It can be done, but not by many.

 

[Erleichda]

I always love these types of topics so I can see who is who outside of our love for Tesla. <Ignore button rocks>

Thanks folks!

 

[Canuck]

the day any of our god given rights are stripped away by a corrupt government is the day that the USA will cease to exist.

Sorry to break the news to you but god never gave anyone the right to own firearms. Our laws are all 100% human made. I'd say "god" is man made too but there's no need to go there to prove my first point -- just follow the history of any law that grants rights in our society. We may have modelled some of our laws after the Judaeo-Christian scheme of morals but not all of them, or stoning and slavery, as only two examples, would be legal.

As to the second part of your sentence, how does America cease to exist if the second amendment is changed or eliminated by Article Five? You do know America existed before the second amendment? And there's even an Article Five showing there was foresight of America existing with a changed Constitution.

But by reading your post, some god came down, gave American rights, and only allows America to exist with second amendment rights. That's some wild imagination you have. It's so far from reality as to be laughable but it does make for a nice fairy tale.

I always get a kick when clueless foreigners try to interject their poorly informed opinions on us in the US.

Right, we like the fairy tale of god keeping America alive only as long as the second amendment continues to exist.

Now there's an informed opinion!

While this event was a serious tragedy by a mad man whom I believe we will find was using weapons that are highly illegal in the US, people do not always understand the magnitude of numbers. What appears to be a massive problem is actually not on the radar as it affects the citizens of the US in 2017.

It's unbelievable to me that you could say that to people grieving the loss of 58 loved ones today. That's really nice of you to tell them their losses are "not on the radar as it affects the citizens of the US in 2017." Check your chest for a heart please.

As to your arguments about drug overdoses and vehicles killing more people, now that takes the cake. I guess your mother never taught you two wrongs don't make a right? I guess if the first one is a really big wrong, it makes the little wrong, right, at least in your strange view of things. Please also tell all those organizations trying to save people's lives from rare diseases and other things that may not kill as many people as drug overdoses and motor vehicle accidents to stop worrying about it -- those things are off the radar for us! Step it up please and kill a lot more if you want to make the radar... the Onion really isn't joking -- this is how some people think...

NRA Sets 1,000 Killed In School Shooting As Amount It Would Take For Them To Reconsider Much Of Anything

 

[nwdiver]

NRA Sets 1,000 Killed In School Shooting As Amount It Would Take For Them To Reconsider Much Of Anything

Satire aside... even that likely wouldn't do it... the NRA is more of a gun cult than a lobbying group....

 

[Electroman]

We need to solve swimming pool deaths before looking at gun deaths.

Scratch that. More people die of old age than anything else. Why bother doing any research or preventative work on any disease unless we solve that.

 

[McRat]

Satire aside... even that likely wouldn't do it... the NRA is more of a gun cult than a lobbying group....

I suppose that comes from those same folk who think that country western music is only for toothless inbred hicks from Arkansas and are always Republican just like the Clintons...

 

[kort677]

Satire aside... even that likely wouldn't do it... the NRA is more of a gun cult than a lobbying group....

just another example of his "facts"

 

[kort677]

We need to solve swimming pool deaths before looking at gun deaths.

Scratch that. More people die of old age than anything else. Why bother doing any research or preventative work on any disease unless we solve that.

wouldn't that be called natural causes?
drowning in pools or being shot are not natural causes of death.

 

[McRat]

Satire aside... even that likely wouldn't do it... the NRA is more of a gun cult than a lobbying group....

Sadly there is no organization with the same degree of power to protect the other 9 Bill of Rights. We will just surrender those without a fight.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

If anyone with the cash was able to purchase a SAM there would be A LOT of things that would be different....

No matter how much I remind myself to never be surprised by the power of cognitive dissonance... I'm still amazed by the power of cognitive dissonance....

Would that be the cognitive dissonance from parading one’s Christian belief, while simultaneously rationalising mass shootings......?

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I have traveled around a good deal. If it wasnt for family connections I would be living in Europe now. I believe you are right about people travelling and exploring the world more, but the conclusion I disagree with. Lets also be clear Communism is dead, u have just a few countries left that have some sort of communist government. Even China is some sort of Communist Dictatorship, Capitalist economy. So I think it is people in the US dont travel around and see how free other people are.

Having lived half my life outside the US, I disagree with this statement.

Try visiting these countries: Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Sudan, Iraq, Yemen, Venezuela, Libya, Somalia, I could go on, but the point is most of these countries are in turmoil /civil war / chaos etc.

Everyone in those countries is trying to come here.... why? Europe is a mess (seen the news on Spain lately?), Greece's economic collapse, Ukraine invaded, Georgia Invaded, about the only place worse in the US is Puerto Rico and those guys were a mess before the storm, now it's more Aleppo like than before, so instead of being $70B in debt, plus an additional $50B in pension debt, they will get the rest of us to pay for the insurance rebuild. Puerto Rican government-debt crisis - Wikipedia