Politics - Quarantine Thread

[Tam]

... The other story was that herd immunity was the only answer...

The UK prime minister Boris Johnson cited herd immunity as one of the solutions to strike a balance:

"...that’s where a lot of the debate has been and one of the theories is, that perhaps you could take it on the chin, take it all in one go and allow the disease, as it were, to move through the population, without taking as many draconian measures. I think we need to strike a balance,..."

Like Trump, he was slow in the response and also downplayed Covid-19. However, as the deaths started to rise and then even he himself got the disease, letting people freely catch the disease so they can obtain herd immunity no is longer one of his solutions.

 

[LasVegas2019]

Yup, sure does seem like some countries were prepared for a pandemic and the USA wasn't... Hmmm. I wonder who we can hold accountable for that?

I know! The backward baseball cap wearing "live free or die" group who refuses to self quarantine.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

I wish we had definitive information. We have indications and stats that will tell you anything you want to see. A couple of interesting issues. Why do prisoners and the homeless skate through will very few symptoms? What is the actual infection rate? There are areas that claim very high rates of being exposed. I have seen rates on the morbidity chart all the way down to .03 and, higher than you show.
So we are left with impressions, (since there is no data that is impeccable) my impression is different than yours.
I will put money on the bet that the rate isn't half the figure you speak of. You want to go? The loser buys the winner a Cybertruck.

 

[Bodyhauler]

Elon Musk needs to open a factory in the Republic of Texas and move out of the Socialist State of California!

Looks like it has been leaked that the next Gigafactory will be in Texas!

 

[brur]

View attachment 537707

Yes, you will find graphs, but then you will hear one expert say one thing and another expert say the opposite. You will hear people on both sides of the local situation in New York City, Sweden, Wuhan, wherever.
In the beginning, the desired goal was to flatten the curve, anyone remember that? That hospitals were being overwhelmed. That there were not enough ventilators. People ranting about needing 20,000 but ended up using 500. We have heard masks were not necessary/ are vital, this is nothing/ this is epic. This medication works/ this one doesn't/ does/ doesn't.
We have not gotten enough clean data to know anything. We can assume. Some people have heard there is a large number of people who have been infected and have immunity, iows the morbidity numbers are off by orders of magnitude. But we don't know, and we won't for months or years. Testing procedures, technology, implementation, are about worthless in the foreseeable future. You might have heard testing is the answer, testing in the quantities needed are about 6 months away. The natural decay of the flu (I continue to shorthand the name) will occur before there is a shot.
Just today I read there has not been one occurrence of a child infecting an adult. So slam up old people/ ill health who want to be slamed up. Let the rest of society do what they want.

 

[Uncle Paul]

From Elon's standpoint, what he says makes sense.

Lots of people are lamenting our lack of personal freedoms that have been severly curtailed by our governments overbearing and unrelenting clamp downs to flatten the curve.

Not being able to go to work, or hug our grandchildren is taking a huge personal and human toll.

 

[Tam]

...But we don't know...

That's the principal!

That's why it's called "novel" or new or unusual.

Because of the lack of proof, some assume that this new one is just like existing old common cold/flu

(This is how typical US PPE look like with flimsy liquid-permeable paper gown that you can practically see through it)

while others are more cautious and treat it like the plague until more data disprove its severity.

(As practiced by South Koreans wearing head to toes PPE)

It's just like while driving on a very clear familiar straight road, it's suddenly blindly foggy.

Some would say it's just a familiar straight road, they can drive blind full speed ahead.

While others would say that they will quarantine the car right there and then until they can see something, anything before slowly move the car ahead.

It's a matter of deciding which risks to take especially if you are in a hurry.

I think it's fine to choose whatever risks but participants need to be informed of the risks vs rewards.

 

[EVortex]

As many of us do, Elon is reacting to how government mandates affect us. Government should protect the public, but many people don’t trust the government to do that well either because of real or perceived incompetence, or for political reasons. There is enough distrust on both sides of the isle to explain many of the diverse responses and reactions, including Elon’s.

 

[TEG]

I know! The backward baseball cap wearing "live free or die" group who refuses to self quarantine.

We are all in this together. The people who chose to congregate in public will slowly spread this to elderly and infirm who eventually have some unavoidable contact even though they try to stay isolated.

Hopefully the young, healthy and fearless help out to protect others.

 

[TEG]

Why don't we have a popcorn eating emoji on this forum? We need that for these topics.

 

[TEG]

If the hospitals are not nearly full there is no end to the crono19. The story that demanded we shut down was we needed to keep hospitals from overfilling.

Many of us are grateful for any slowdown of the progression... It gives some time for:
#1: Doctors to learn new procedures and find better ways to treat this (in case you eventually get sick.) The "flatter the curve" the more chance they have to learn how to treat this properly.
#2: TIme for a vaccine to become available. It could prevent many of us from catching this if we can slow it down long enough for the vaccines to be proven and released.
#3: Hospitals to treat patients with other problems. People are still needing surgery and treatments for other things, so letting the hospitals get "full up" with COVID patients can lead to other people dying because they couldn't get care.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

We are all in this together. The people who chose to congregate in public will slowly spread this to elderly and infirm who eventually have some unavoidable contact even though they try to stay isolated.

Hopefully the young, healthy and fearless help out to protect others.

All in this together like when people chose to drive gasoline cars in congested cities and injure others with pollution, including all other species or have maybe 3 or 5 kids so others don't feel comfortable having any kids.
we are a plague. still a growing world population too fast even with all this.
At some point human growth will stop. it is going to happen, we are too large of creature that consumes way too many resources.
things like this are meant to happen and happen for a good reason.
but I like it...it is super cool that you can wear a masked ninja suit into a bank or even a crazy chapped cowboy outfit with a bandanna and sidearms!
sick place

 

[MXLRplus]

All in this together like when people chose to drive gasoline cars in congested cities and injure others with pollution, including all other species or have maybe 3 or 5 kids so others don't feel comfortable having any kids.
we are a plague. still a growing world population too fast even with all this.
At some point human growth will stop. it is going to happen, we are too large of creature that consumes way too many resources.
things like this are meant to happen and happen for a good reason.
but I like it...it is super cool that you can wear a masked ninja suit into a bank or even a crazy chapped cowboy outfit with a bandanna and sidearms!
sick place

Welcome to 1966. We claimed the earth could not support more people or we will all starve. 2022 was the setting of 1973's Soylent Green, a must watch classic. Spoiler - Edgar G. Robinson actually does die when the film is finished.

Global starvation was higher in '68 than today. We have far over twice as many people now, and still numerically fewer starvation deaths.

And it is highly likely that in less than 50 years from now, the global population will have peaked at 10 billion and start to fall.

The End Is Near has been a popular narrative for over 2000 years, and that will never change, so you are in good company.

Trivia - Spiders eat enough insects in a year to devour the entire human race's biomass. Twice over. And then some.

 

[TEG]

All in this together like when people chose to drive gasoline cars in congested cities and injure others with pollution, including all other species or have maybe 3 or 5 kids so others don't feel comfortable having any kids.
we are a plague. still a growing world population too fast even with all this.
At some point human growth will stop. it is going to happen, we are too large of creature that consumes way too many resources.
things like this are meant to happen and happen for a good reason.
but I like it...it is super cool that you can wear a masked ninja suit into a bank or even a crazy chapped cowboy outfit with a bandanna and sidearms!
sick place

"Time for nature to cull the herd" is a hard sell...

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The natural decay of the flu (I continue to shorthand the name)

It's not the flu, bro.

the morbidity numbers are off by orders of magnitude.

Nope. The IFR is exactly as expected - about 0.5 to 1%.

But we don't know,

Yes we do. Antibody & PCR tests from multiple locations (New York, Denmark, Iceland) now confirm about 1% IFR.

you will hear one expert say one thing and another expert say the opposite.

Nope. Actual experts are pretty consistent on the story, within the bounds of what we know. Namely, it's a highly dangerous disease, and quite contagious.

the desired goal was to flatten the curve, anyone remember that?

That was one goal of curve flattening, there were three goals:

1) Prevent hospital overload
2) Get case load down so that TTIQ can work.
3) Allow time for new therapeutics and/or a vaccine to be developed.

 

[Jayson]

I've noticed reaction seems to depend on geography.

Here in the New York area I can tell you for sure the death counts are wildly understated. So many non-hospitalized people are dying at home and in nursing homes, and they are not counted as they are not tested for the virus because they don't want to waste testing supplies on those who have already passed.

In New Jersey the state is now requiring nursing homes to report infections and deaths. But the counts are meaningless because their patients are not getting tested. My niece's father is in a nursing home, and according to the people that work there they have had 16 deaths in the last two weeks in a home where they average about one per week. But when you look at the state's report for that nursing home it shows zero COVID deaths because they never bothered to test for the virus. Obviously they have a vested interest in reporting lower numbers.

 

[MXLRplus]

I've noticed reaction seems to depend on geography.

Here in the New York area I can tell you for sure the death counts are wildly understated. So many non-hospitalized people are dying at home and in nursing homes, and they are not counted as they are not tested for the virus because they don't want to waste testing supplies on those who have already passed.

In New Jersey the state is now requiring nursing homes to report infections and deaths. But the counts are meaningless because their patients are not getting tested. My niece's father is in a nursing home, and according to the people that work there they have had 16 deaths in the last two weeks in a home where they average about one per week. But when you look at the state's report for that nursing home it shows zero COVID deaths because they never bothered to test for the virus. Obviously they have a vested interest in reporting lower numbers.

Yet somehow your existing hospitals are half full, other temporary hospitals have shut down, and mass transit is still operational and PPE is palletized in warehouses.

 

[brur]

Many of us are grateful for any slowdown of the progression... It gives some time for:
#1: Doctors to learn new procedures and find better ways to treat this (in case you eventually get sick.) The "flatter the curve" the more chance they have to learn how to treat this properly.
#2: TIme for a vaccine to become available. It could prevent many of us from catching this if we can slow it down long enough for the vaccines to be proven and released.
#3: Hospital to treat patients with other problems. People are still needing surgery and treatments for other things, so letting the hospitals get "full up" with COVID patients can lead to other people dying because they couldn't get care.

Most major cities stopped all nonemergency procedures. Many hospitals have laid off personnel, they are losing money and doctors are complaining.

 

[tomas]

Why don't we have a popcorn eating emoji on this forum? We need that for these topics.

The whole popcorn thing I find to be fascinatingly moronic. Imagine saying I’ve got nothing to say on a topic, but I’d waste my time as voyeur, watching others debate and eating popcorn. About the most passive aggressive, non-constructive waste of time I can imagine. Enjoy your popcorn. Bye.

 

[tomas]

Yet somehow your existing hospitals are half full, other temporary hospitals have shut down, and mass transit is still operational and PPE is palletized in warehouses.

If mitigation measures were not taken or if people did not comply, the hospital capacity would definitely have been all used and then some. Trains are running because most of the essential workers need them to do their job. It is sad that people amplify this type of garbage.