Politics - Quarantine Thread

[FlatSix911]

It’s not looking good for the bill with the inflation numbers and the GOP trickery of the revised CBO score. Manchin doesn’t seem like he wants to sign on. The crappy part is the inflation numbers that were out today don’t reflect the improvement we have seem in the last couple of weeks.

Graham hopes to sway Manchin against Biden plan with new CBO report

Republicans are hoping to sway Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) into hitting pause on President Biden’s climate and social spending plan — or nixing it altogether — using a new Congressional B…

thehill.com

"The CBO released a report on Friday, at Graham's request, that found Biden's spending plan would increase the cost of the deficit by $3 trillion over 10 years if all of its provisions were made permanent. Comparatively, the CBO determined that the bill, as it passed the House, would add $200 billion to the deficit in the same time period.

Graham added that he talked to Manchin earlier Friday and hoped the CBO report would give him "great pause."
"I talked to him this morning. He was stunned. I think he felt vindicated and that his concerns were legitimate," Graham said."

 

[PineNut]

It seems odd the CBO looked at the cost if all provisions were made permanent because many of the provisions in the BBB Bill are for 10 years, just as were many of the Trump tax cuts.

That $200 billion amount (with the 10 yr provisions) could be easily fixed by trimming certain things in the BBB Bill, such as the increase in the SALT Tax deduction from $10K to $80K which was added at the last minute.

 

[mwdietertg]

It seems odd the CBO looked at the cost if all provisions were made permanent because many of the provisions in the BBB Bill are for 10 years, just as were many of the Trump tax cuts.

That $200 billion amount (with the 10 yr provisions) could be easily fixed by trimming certain things in the BBB Bill, such as the increase in the SALT Tax deduction from $10K to $80K which was added at the last minute.

It's not odd - Lindsey Graham specifically requested this hypothetical score to give more cover for Manchin to cut/delay/vote down the package.

 

[goin2drt]

Which extreme end are you rooting for?

Sorry it was the part about the union blood money that I meant should have never been in there. Selfishly would love to get a rebate (2/22 MYP delivery) however I am absolutely against the entire BBB as it has AGAIN mostly pork in it for all the politicians special interests. another complete WASTE of money that my great grand children will be paying for.

 

[Sexy_owner]

Sorry it was the part about the union blood money that I meant should have never been in there. Selfishly would love to get a rebate (2/22 MYP delivery) however I am absolutely against the entire BBB as it has AGAIN mostly pork in it for all the politicians special interests. another complete WASTE of money that my great grand children will be paying for.

Same boat here. I hope the tornados didn't do too much damage in your (KY) neighborhood...

 

[goin2drt]

Same boat here. I hope the tornados didn't do too much damage in your (KY) neighborhood...

Thanks for that. We are near Lexington and we were good. We had one siren for 30 minutes but nothing here but some wind and rain. Horrible what happened East of us.

 

[advocate8]

Sorry it was the part about the union blood money that I meant should have never been in there. Selfishly would love to get a rebate (2/22 MYP delivery) however I am absolutely against the entire BBB as it has AGAIN mostly pork in it for all the politicians special interests. another complete WASTE of money that my great grand children will be paying for.

yup. like all those tax cuts.

 

[patmurphey]

It's a shame welfare programs can't be separated from reasonable green legislation, and live or die on their own merits.

 

[orion2001]

True. I probably should’ve started my post by saying “Opinion piece…”. Oh wait…

Just pointing out that the author of the opinion piece has a strong bias against the legislation so I'd take anything in that op-ed with a heaping tablespoon of salt.

In any case, the chances that Manchin leaves the party are rather slim imo. Why would he when he has all the power and leverage in the Democratic party and gets to be King Manchin with everyone sucking up to him all the time? He'd much rather be that than a nobody in the other party with most of the party base disliking him for not being extreme enough. He's going to continue playing to his base with his current persona while enjoying all that comes with being the deciding vote on most legislation. While BBB may not pass due to any number of reasons, I don't really think Manchin completely derailing it is a high likelihood. He's a political animal and the smart thing for him to do is gain maximum celebrity with his base by being an "independent" and maximizing what he can extract out of the current administration before going forward with voting on the legislation.

 

[Two-rocks]

Joe Manchin is the Best!

Fixed it for you

 

[doomsday997]

He going to make a stand on these, and at minimum gut the bill in a way that will make him a hero to the other party, and then he will create some hyped drama, probably reaction to something one of the further-left of his party says about him, and make a big show of leaving the party.
Then he would be an absolutely lock for reelection from the GOP.,.. and given trend lines among voters and how close his last election bid was, highly unlikely no matter what he does with BBB to be reelected as a Demo.
The tricky part is he hasn’t really taken a shot at the core EV credits, just the union parts, and has taken shots at very specific other parts of the bill. SO even if the scenario above plays out he could leave a husk of BBB that includes the basic $7,500 or $8000 credits. Then the question becomes whether the left will be mad enough at him to sink it and come back with just small parts of the bill individually.
But it’s not happening by Jan 1., none of it, and then it becomes a question of when in 2022 your EDD shows and whether any vestige of credits is modified to be in effect only after date it is approved... So complicated!

So he basically said he wants it at 1.75 trillion or less over 10 years and to assume all the provisions would be permanent. The child tax credit itself would be about that amount so if that’s left in under his calculus literally everything in the bill would have to be cut. Basically put them in an impossible impasse for now. In addition the parlamenterian said immigration is a no go for the bill and she’s just gotten started other things are likely to get axed too (like prescription drug regulation) All of this will make it more difficult to get a paired down bill through the house when and if it goes back. Things aren’t looking good.

 

[nate704]

I do not understand for those who want this BBB to pass. It is your tax money at stake. Those politicians just want to spend your money, so that they can make profit and gain power by spending your money. You will be the one (and your children) who have to pay for all this next 10+ years.

 

[advocate8]

I do not understand for those who want this BBB to pass. It is your tax money at stake. Those politicians just want to spend your money, so that they can make profit and gain power by spending your money. You will be the one (and your children) who have to pay for all this next 10+ years.

This oversimplifies the bill well past the point of accuracy. Honest people can argue to what degree it IS revenue neutral but it must be, under law. It includes provisions to raise the money it spends. This is a thread, though, about whether Tesla credits are coming back, we aren’t debating the merits of the bill or preaching dogmatic positions on taxes and Ayn Rand.

 

[casey72017]

I do not understand for those who want this BBB to pass. It is your tax money at stake. Those politicians just want to spend your money, so that they can make profit and gain power by spending your money. You will be the one (and your children) who have to pay for all this next 10+ years.

According to your logic, no Bills should be passed and no investment should be made from a government's, or even a private company's, standpoint, since you are just looking at the cost and saying that it is our offsprings to bear...

However, there are reasons why these investments are being made, whether they increase certain benefits in other social aspects and well-being, or they create estimated monetary benefit that will likely exceed the cost. Also, a Bill that is as large as this often carries both goods and bads, and depending on a particular person's viewpoint, these goods and bads could be very different from one person to another.

Have you really read through the entire Bill and analyze all the goods and bads? Or you are just picking up information from a media piece or a Twitter post, and conclude from there? I suspect it's most often the latter since most of us here don't have the leisure to really spend the time to go through the entire texts.

No Bill is perfect, and it's a product of a lot of compromise. As we've seen now, these on-going discussion about conflict is actually good to make it better - in a sense to cater to a wider range of audience.

Imo, the statement like yours is just wasting everyone's time and fairly pointless, since there's absolutely no concrete argument in a statement like this, and therefore it's not effective and serve no purpose on a forum/thread like this. For example, at least share some information on which items in the Bill is good, since a Bill as large as this cannot be ALL bad to you... if you cannot do that, I don't think you've really analyzed the Bill in depth. If you are able to do that, you can go on to your analysis of the bads, and with conclusion that the bads out-weigh the goods. In this way, you show that you've done your homework, and this analysis would be fruitful in a conversation in this thread.

 

[goin2drt]

According to your logic, no Bills should be passed and no investment should be made from a government's, or even a private company's, standpoint, since you are just looking at the cost and saying that it is our offsprings to bear...

However, there are reasons why these investments are being made, whether they increase certain benefits in other social aspects and well-being, or they create estimated monetary benefit that will likely exceed the cost. Also, a Bill that is as large as this often carries both goods and bads, and depending on a particular person's viewpoint, these goods and bads could be very different from one person to another.

Have you really read through the entire Bill and analyze all the goods and bads? Or you are just picking up information from a media piece or a Twitter post, and conclude from there? I suspect it's most often the latter since most of us here don't have the leisure to really spend the time to go through the entire texts.

No Bill is perfect, and it's a product of a lot of compromise. As we've seen now, these on-going discussion about conflict is actually good to make it better - in a sense to cater to a wider range of audience.

Imo, the statement like yours is just wasting everyone's time and fairly pointless, since there's absolutely no concrete argument in a statement like this, and therefore it's not effective and serve no purpose on a forum/thread like this. For example, at least share some information on which items in the Bill is good, since a Bill as large as this cannot be ALL bad to you... if you cannot do that, I don't think you've really analyzed the Bill in depth. If you are able to do that, you can go on to your analysis of the bads, and with conclusion that the bads out-weigh the goods. In this way, you show that you've done your homework, and this analysis would be fruitful in a conversation in this thread.

I would say the same about your post. I would bet that you have not read the 2000+ page bill either and you are getting your info from your media choice. It is what people do when politicians put a giant bill in front of the American public to endure the cost they are destined to just take the narrative of their choice and then take a side whatever side of the aisle you are on. I would argue that your statement was also pointless.

 

[casey72017]

I would say the same about your post. I would bet that you have not read the 2000+ page bill either and you are getting your info from your media choice. It is what people do when politicians put a giant bill in front of the American public to endure the cost they are destined to just take the narrative of their choice and then take a side whatever side of the aisle you are on. I would argue that your statement was also pointless.

Yes, I have not read through it all, and that's why I did not state any conclusion/statement about the Bill itself, right? The point is to urge us to stay away for making meaningless statements here as those come with close to no information and contribution to this forum...

I'll stop here and not reply more on this, as this is derailing from the purpose of this thread.

 

[nate704]

According to your logic, no Bills should be passed and no investment should be made from a government's, or even a private company's, standpoint, since you are just looking at the cost and saying that it is our offsprings to bear...

However, there are reasons why these investments are being made, whether they increase certain benefits in other social aspects and well-being, or they create estimated monetary benefit that will likely exceed the cost. Also, a Bill that is as large as this often carries both goods and bads, and depending on a particular person's viewpoint, these goods and bads could be very different from one person to another.

Have you really read through the entire Bill and analyze all the goods and bads? Or you are just picking up information from a media piece or a Twitter post, and conclude from there? I suspect it's most often the latter since most of us here don't have the leisure to really spend the time to go through the entire texts.

No Bill is perfect, and it's a product of a lot of compromise. As we've seen now, these on-going discussion about conflict is actually good to make it better - in a sense to cater to a wider range of audience.

Imo, the statement like yours is just wasting everyone's time and fairly pointless, since there's absolutely no concrete argument in a statement like this, and therefore it's not effective and serve no purpose on a forum/thread like this. For example, at least share some information on which items in the Bill is good, since a Bill as large as this cannot be ALL bad to you... if you cannot do that, I don't think you've really analyzed the Bill in depth. If you are able to do that, you can go on to your analysis of the bads, and with conclusion that the bads out-weigh the goods. In this way, you show that you've done your homework, and this analysis would be fruitful in a conversation in this thread.

yes, I read the entire bill and it is laughable when they say most of expensive programs will expire, but do you really think they will let this expire in the future? LOL. There are so many items that are not even relevant to most people and certainly do not help for those who are actually in need. Keep dreaming and when you are done, come back to our reality from your alternate reality of fantasy land.

 

[israndy]

Yip, hard to believe people pick up on that nonsense when the people that worked with Elon and Kimble talk about how hard they worked and them living at the office, worked for all the American money they have. But people just can't believe that someone can be talented when they are such losers so OBVIOUSLY he just got money from his Dad, like Trump did.

 

[kabin]

I hope there can be consensus on smaller spending bills but common sense says otherwise. Buying overpriced EVs isn't as important to the radical left's lower socioeconomic base. I doubt the right wing wants to commit to more social spending. It's gonna be gridlock until after the mid term 2022 elections.

 

[Iain]

It's a bummer for EV tax credits but in the big picture thank goodness someone could be an adult and take away the overdrawn credit card. Down the road hopefully they can pass smaller bills that have consensus.

Manchin is anything but an adult. If it was for coal he would be all in. We can pretend one group is better than the other with the credit card, but they aren’t.