Politics - Quarantine Thread

[mspohr]

I'd have a slightly different take if I could get into it more (but I can't), but I see where you are coming from. To me the real issue now is that factually accurate things can also be considered "insensitive" or "racist" by certain groups standards. And if we get to the point that factually accurate things are not allowed to be said because they offend certain sensibilities then we go to a bad place.

A few examples of suppressing factually accurate things that have triggered people:
- The 1619 history project which is an attempt to document the history of slavery in the US has triggered widespread censorship.
- LGBT+ There have always been LGBT+ people. Try to understand and accept. Denial and abuse will not make them go away.

 

[golfcart]

A few examples of suppressing factually accurate things that have triggered people:
- The 1619 history project which is an attempt to document the history of slavery in the US has triggered widespread censorship.
- LGBT+ There have always been LGBT+ people. Try to understand and accept. Denial and abuse will not make them go away.

I don't even know where to begin with this nonsense.

The idea that we don't already teach about the history of slavery and civil rights in this country is a joke. I went to school in Virginia, in one of the most "conservative" cities in the country based on all the "surveys" that come out. We learned about all of it. We sang "Wade in the water" and "Swing low sweet chariot" in music class and talked about why slaves sang those songs. We saw pictures of people with whip marks on their backs. We learned about Nat Turners rebellion. We watched videos of people being attacked with firehoses and dogs during the civil rights era. Our teacher read Martin Luther Kings "I have a dream" speech out loud to us on MLK day. What people are objecting to is that every single subject must be taught through the same "anti-racist" lens. The idea that students are not learning that part of history is a complete straw man and I'd challenge you to show me actual censorship of the 1619 project.

What people object to with the 1619 project is that it attempts to (ahistorically) re-frame the entire founding of the country around slavery and has been criticized as historically inaccurate by numerous experts on the American revolution. You will likely criticize the messenger here rather than discuss the content but this is a nice write-up of why her central claims are dubious.

Fact Checking the 1619 Project and Its Critics

The New York Times’ 1619 Project entered a new phase of historical assessment when the paper published a scathing criticism by five well-known historians of the American Revolution and Civil War eras. The group included previous critics James McPherson, Gordon Wood, Victoria Bynum, and James...

www.aier.org

Nobody says that the LGB... people don't exist. It is an infuriating straw man as they obviously exist some people just don't believe that you are whatever you identify yourself as despite of objective facts to the contrary. Furthermore, saying that schools do not have the right to put my child on puberty blockers and affirm their "gender identity" behind my back is not transphobic. Arguing that males who decide to transition to females should not be allowed to compete in womens sports is not transphobic. We only have segregated womens sports because there would be no women competing at the elite levels if they had to compete with males due to the biological differences between the sexes not gender identity. I challenge you to look at the world record times for men and women across any number of track events and show me otherwise.

Mods. If you are gonna move my perfectly reasonable analogy that highlights the difference between traditional liberals and "anti-racists" in the context of Elon Musk and his vision of "free speech" but allow this kind of crap to be posted then I don't know what to say. This is why I reported this thread for politics as soon as it started going down this road because it always ends up in the same place and if the rules state no politics then it should be the case across the board. I have no problem with open debate but biased moderation is not helping anyone.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Elon Musk poised to collect $23bn bonus as Tesla beats targets

Electric car giant’s CEO says he is not in talks on new bonus scheme after completing 2018 deal early

www.theguardian.com

Elon Musk, chief executive of Tesla and the world’s richest person, is set to collect a $23bn (£17.6bn) bonus after the electric car company’s reported record quarterly profits.

That'll help with the purchase of Twitter.

Oh, I get it now. He's going to buy Twitter, let Trump back on it, and then troll the Democrats talking about the tax loss.

 

[golfcart]

So, you think its all the LGBTQ stuff ? I don't think (unlike, apparently, what you wish him to be) Elon is a homophobe.

It is interesting that not wanting your elementary age child being bombarded with content that focus on peoples sexual and gender identities now qualifies one as a homophobe. I must be behind the times. I get the representation argument to an extent but there is still an idea of age appropriateness (which is what that tweet implies to me).

I think Elon sees an asymmetry in how the rules are enforced on twitter plain and simple. As I explained in my since quarantined post, I think this is a battle between classical liberal ideas and what are now commonly referred to as "woke" or "anti-racist" ideas. And I think Elon is a classical liberal more than anything. The two ideas may overlap in many ways in terms of goals but the tactics are incompatible.

 

[SDRick]

I must be a homophobe or not woke enough as well since I believe it is unfair that males compete in female athletics. Along the same lines, I believe it unfair for 16-year-olds to compete against 12-year-olds.

 

[goin2drt]

Twitter fascination and purchase embodies all that is immature and stupid about Elon. Crossed the fine line from genius to insanity and smashed our investments with him. Thev wholev world and financial markets disrespect this move.
No wonder the board of Tritter was unanimous. How would a poll be run about this? Elon the poll dancer.

No the left disrespects the move. They are very concerned their narrative won’t be controlled any longer. Be very clear the whole world does not.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Edit: I would argue that the NY Post, if that's who he's referring to hardly qualifies as "news". More like rumors and innuendo...

And yet it was tue. Whether you consider it news or not, it was true information that was inappropriately suppressed. The fact that liberals wail about suppressing voters with ID laws and yet actively try to suppress real news harming their favorite candidate tells me volumes about their intentions.

 

[golfcart]

I find it hard to believe that the same people who think all disparities are due to prejudice can also believe that these companies are ideologically neutral in their content moderation given the ideologically imbalanced views of their workers. If Elon can make the criteria for moderation straightforward and consistently enforced it will go a long ways to restore trust.

 

[mspohr]

I find it hard to believe that the same people who think all disparities are due to prejudice can also believe that these companies are ideologically neutral in their content moderation given the ideologically imbalanced views of their workers. If Elon can make the criteria for moderation straightforward and consistently enforced it will go a long ways to restore trust.

View attachment 798100

It is well known that reality has a strong liberal bias.

 

[mongo]

It is well known that reality has a strong liberal bias.

hummm... Both energy and momentum are conservative...

 

[mspohr]

hummm... Both energy and momentum are conservative...

But reality tends toward entropy.

 

[golfcart]

It is well known that reality has a strong liberal bias.

I’m sure the moderators at Twitter feel the same way.

I was considered liberal about 5 years ago before anyone to the right of Bernie name a Nazi so I guess it depends on your definition of liberal.

 

[SDRick]

I see the far left and the far right are in a contest to see who can overreact to this the most.

I believe the far left is winning but the far right is trying to close the distance.

I believe much of the controversy revolves around free-speech. So is it that the Right believes in free speech and the Left does not?, Or is it the other way around?

 

[DarkandStormy]

I see the far left and the far right are in a contest to see who can overreact to this the most.

I believe the far left is winning but the far right is trying to close the distance.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519771164784087041

 

[AquaY]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519771164784087041

LMAO.

 

[SDRick]

I see the far left and the far right are in a contest to see who can overreact to this the most.

I believe the far left is winning but the far right is trying to close the distance.

Much of this controversy seems to revolve around speech.
Is it the Right that is for free speech and the Left is not. Or is it the other way around?

 

[mspohr]

I wonder which post master made that deal.

This is, of course, Trump's post master, DeJoy who is also famous for dismantling mail boxes in minority neighborhoods to prevent vote by mail and, of course, feeding his private company corrupt contracts for personal gain.

 

[FlatSix911]

I see the far left and the far right are in a contest to see who can overreact to this the most.

I believe the far left is winning but the far right is trying to close the distance.

An insightfull graphic from Elon... it shows his position has not changed, but the political landscape certainly has.

Billionaire Elon Musk insists he is a liberal — but is viewed as a far-right “bigot” because “woke progressives” are pushing the left to extremes.
The world’s richest man used his new $44 billion purchase, Twitter, to share a simple stick-figure illustration Thursday highlighting his position in the dramatically shifting political landscape over the last 14 years.

 

[phil4791eng]

Moderator Note: I have moved some recent posts to Elon & Twitter and as I don't bother moderating the Investor section, and those mods seem to be allowing that discussion to occur unfettered (for now), I think it makes sense that any Elon/Twitter chatter occurs there.

This doesn't mean that thread won't be moderated or locked eventually, especially as it becomes a pointless ideological standoff between members, but if you want to argue about things and not change anyone's mind, that's as good a place as any for now.

Just let people speak. Why do words scare you?

 

[SDRick]

In 1978, the ACLU took a controversial stand for free speech by defending a neo-Nazi group that wanted to march through the Chicago suburb of Skokie , where many Holocaust survivors lived.

If the ACLU can take the stand they did in 1978, I do not understand why people are having problems with speech. Sunshine is a great disinfectant.

Where is the ACLU now?