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Poll - Are you waiting for the infrastructure bill before ordering?

For those in the market for a tesla - what of the below options do you belong to?

  • I can wait - and I am going to wait until at least august (when they hope bill will pass)

    Votes: 65 19.9%
  • I can wait - and I am going to wait until at the bill passes (August 2024.....)

    Votes: 34 10.4%
  • I can wait - and am ordering now and accepting deliverh ASAP

    Votes: 49 15.0%
  • I cannot wait - and am ordering now and accepting delivery ASAP

    Votes: 92 28.1%
  • I cannot wait - but I am going to milk my current situation to maybe get until august

    Votes: 15 4.6%
  • Undecided and will make a rash decision as I have ADHD

    Votes: 12 3.7%
  • I would pay 2X MSRP for a tesla because I make bank, therefore accepting delivery ASAP

    Votes: 5 1.5%
  • I currently have a Tesla and will trade in for a different vehicle when incentives pass

    Votes: 21 6.4%
  • I currently have a Tesla and am trading in before incentives pass

    Votes: 10 3.1%
  • I am going to keep my current Tesla for at least 2+ years and incentives will not change that

    Votes: 24 7.3%

  • Total voters
    327

pipp

Member
Aug 1, 2021
184
172
Los Angeles
There should be some kind of a honeymoon period before they do raise prices. Otherwise there will not only be a lot of bad press and disgruntled customers, but also a lot of disgruntled congress people…
 

ry-ballz

Member
Mar 13, 2019
465
681
Colorado
There should be some kind of a honeymoon period before they do raise prices. Otherwise there will not only be a lot of bad press and disgruntled customers, but also a lot of disgruntled congress people…
Congress didn't give a *sugar* when they lowered prices when the rebates went away. Why would they care now?

What kind of bad press do you think they'll get when 500,000 people order the cheapest Tesla and wait times go to 9 months instead of the current 2 to 3?

Tesla isn't a charity.

Their goal is to reach an equilibrium in the market with how much their cars cost and how many they can sell. If the cars get too cheap, it doesn't help them, and in reality will hurt them because demand will rise too much.

Right now, they're near an equilibrium, they've got slightly more demand than they can supply. If that tips further the only logical thing is for them to raise prices to get that equilibrium back. The side effect is that this solution also substantially increases their profit per vehicle which again, if you're Tesla is good.

They can use those additional profits to increase production, increase quality, add new products etc... But the idea that a publicly traded company would just say, nah, we don't need the money, let them all buy cars we can't make is laughable.
 

jsdugan

Member
May 1, 2019
41
29
Central IL
Does anyone know if the proposed changes for the bill will still require federal tax owed for the rebate? Part 4, Sec. 136401 states: This provision provides for a refundable income tax credit for new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicles placed into service by the taxpayer during the taxable year.
Does the word "refundable" change things? How will dealerships know if the buyer owed enough federal taxes to receive the full rebate at time of sale (since one of the proposed changes is that the dealership can receive the rebate directly, and the rebate taken off for the purchaser at the time of sale).

I know this is all speculation since nothing official has passed. In an example of the full "union" amount proposed of $12,500 - How many people owed over $12,500 in federal taxes?
 

Attachments

  • Ways and Means EV Credit Bill.pdf
    404.5 KB · Views: 5

VTShaggy

Member
Feb 19, 2020
143
96
Virginia
They're currently selling more cars than they can make.
If a rebate creates an incentive that lowers pricing across the board, they'll be selling even more cars they can't make.

Why don't you think they'll raise prices?

Tesla prices tend to be sticky in my experience and don't flow due to supply and demand alone. Tesla certainly isn't afraid to adjust prices suddenly and without warning, but I've only heard of one instance where Tesla didn't honor the original order price. And in that special case it wasn't that Tesla wouldn't honor it, it just didn't deliver the car before the buyer was sick of waiting and grabbed an LFP.

I'm my case, I've ordered the cheapest Tesla model and trim. I think Tesla wants to keep that entry level Tesla under $40k. If anything, Tesla wants to reduce that entry level price.

I would not be shocked to see Tesla raise prices a little bit on new orders in the coming weeks (other than M3 SR+ perhaps), but I would bet that would be combined with FSD becoming standard, at least for highway driving. I can see the SR+ going all LFP, at $40k, with standard FSD (for highways).
 
Last edited:

VTShaggy

Member
Feb 19, 2020
143
96
Virginia
Does the word "refundable" change things? How will dealerships know if the buyer owed enough federal taxes to receive the full rebate at time of sale (since one of the proposed changes is that the dealership can receive the rebate directly, and the rebate taken off for the purchaser at the time of sale).
My understanding is that "refundable" changes things considerably. A refundable tax credit means you can get the entire benefit even if you have no tax liability at all. Makes the tax credit useful to basically everyone, especially because it would become point of sale (transferable to the manufacturer/dealer).
 

alset3000

Member
Sep 16, 2021
105
79
VA
Regarding EV credits, Manchin said he want hydrogen vehicles also included. I doubt that is a deal breaker for Kildee and Stabenow who are behind the current EV credit revision in the proposed $3.5T reconciliation package. I think it's about 50/50 to see something that goes in effect for 1/1/22.
 
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trixter

Member
Sep 8, 2021
9
6
USA
Here's a good summary as of OCT 2021 of where the different proposals on tax credits stand.

615c8859868e3f9333893f72_EV%20Tax%20Credits%402x.jpg
 

T3SLAROD

Member
May 14, 2019
981
936
SoCal
Its a damn Scam, the Sedan cutoff is $55k with takes the Performance out. Guess who doesn't make any EV Sedans :rolleyes: ....But SUVs are good for up to $69k
 
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BlueWRXPride

Member
Oct 24, 2017
207
66
Syracuse
I placed my order earlier this month. I toyed with the idea of trying to delay my order, but I'm also trying to time selling my existing M3 and lock in the high used value. If I waited to sell my car until Dec/Jan, the value could drop significantly, especially if the EV credit officially comes back. So I'm planning on selling the car as soon as next week to lock that value in, and then renting a car for maybe no more than a month, since my current estimate is 15 Nov - 14 Dec. I suppose I could sell the car now and try to delay my order, and keep the rental car longer. That'd get the best of both worlds, but I'm sure Tesla won't willingly let people delay deliveries since they always want to deliver as many as possible before the end of the quarter.
 
Nov 4, 2018
171
124
Front Range, CO
Yes, this creates quite the quandary for us with December delivery dates.

I'm upgrading from a '18 LR Model 3 and resale is so good that it's around $1k out of pocket after CO $2,500 rebate to upgrade. That's amazing but to get and additional $7,500 back as we definitely have the tax liability is very hard to ignore and not try and get.

Problem for us is we need to vehicles much of the time and have an offer now to sell. Sure the offer might stay strong but the used market could change too although used Model 3s appear to be rare here in CO. I could sell now and then rent an ICE car but that adds up quick. Hard to say what would be more expensive; rent a car for needed time (huge hassle) or keep the 3 and then sell when new car comes and hope market is still strong and depreciation continues to be low.
 
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Jeremy3292

Gas Is Slow
Jul 7, 2021
687
652
South Carolina
The bill text has not been released and we do not know the timeline for when the credit will be effective. The link below shows you the proposed differences in the bills in the house and the senate and that we need to see the actual bill text to know for sure, which they haven’t even written yet.

 

BlueWRXPride

Member
Oct 24, 2017
207
66
Syracuse
Yes, this creates quite the quandary for us with December delivery dates.

I'm upgrading from a '18 LR Model 3 and resale is so good that it's around $1k out of pocket after CO $2,500 rebate to upgrade. That's amazing but to get and additional $7,500 back as we definitely have the tax liability is very hard to ignore and not try and get.

Problem for us is we need to vehicles much of the time and have an offer now to sell. Sure the offer might stay strong but the used market could change too although used Model 3s appear to be rare here in CO. I could sell now and then rent an ICE car but that adds up quick. Hard to say what would be more expensive; rent a car for needed time (huge hassle) or keep the 3 and then sell when new car comes and hope market is still strong and depreciation continues to be low.
Yeah sounds like we're in exactly the same boat. I'm also selling a '18 LR M3. I think i'm going to sell mine next week as I think the value can only go down from here. And I found a friend which will let me use his 3rd car for much less than renting one, so that will take the pressure off. I'm still not sure I'll do anything to delay the delivery date, as I don't think Tesla would make that easy, and this bill is still not law.
 

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